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Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

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Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#111

Post by tombert »

piokoch wrote: post #98
tombert wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree; the only caveat I'd give is that it's tough to say how much longer any of us are going to be yuppies right now; I work for one of the many big megacorporations whose stock is tanking right now. If the stock doesn't pick up soonish, there's a non-zero probability of me being laid off. While I'm not that worried (I've been able to find work in bad economies in the past), I also do feel a bit of paranoia…

Why? The price of the stocks does not affect company in any way. If the company sales are going down or clients stop coming this is an issue, stock value is important only for those who hold/speculate using them. You company has already got the money from selling stocks, nobody is going to take them away.

Because if the stock price is tanking, there's an incentive to figure out how to either a) increase profits or b) decrease spending.

Since the market is tanking, there's a likelihood that people will be spending less, thus leading to less profits for my company; as a result, the only easy way to keep investors happy is to reduce costs, and the easiest way to do that is to start doing layoffs.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#113

Post by mc32 »

scottlamb wrote: post #53
duxup wrote: post #19

Economics is an interesting field of study with what seems like endless amount of differing views and such. However, it seems that if you're looking for economic stimulus one of the most sure fire ways / proven ways / agreed upon ways to get bang for the buck is to give poor people money. Poor people will spend it, and you can be pretty dang sure they'll put that money into the economy and quickly. I'm all for it.

I agree giving poor people money (possibly just everyone money right away rather than sorting out who is poor first) is the right thing to do now, but I think about it slightly differently: I don't think "economic stimulus" is the right goal. The public health officials are doing their absolute best to bring the economy to a near-halt, at least any part of it involving non-essential physical interaction. I don't want…

The gov has to set parameters and then they can go by payroll data/IRS data. I’m sure there’s lots to think about if you want, but the important data is quite available.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#114

Post by mythrwy »

I feel we need to do something along these lines for the immediate, but at the same time wonder if it's practically possible to give enough money to actually matter.

To me it seems this crisis is exposing several fallacies underlying our civilization. 1) The idea that infinite debt based economic growth is workable long term. 2) The notion that somehow we can beat natural evolution and selection long term with science.

Both of these ideas work very well in the narrow slice of human history we have lived in, but longer term maybe are just fallacies.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#116

Post by matwood »

chewz wrote: post #66
shartshooter wrote: post #26

As long as the money is given to folks who need and/or will spend it, it feels like this is the exact situation where the federal government steps in for stimulus. There’s no pull yourself up by your bootstraps talk right now and there shouldn’t be. I know the single parent working a couple of jobs will spend every dime they’re given in a time like this, just to survive. A yuppie like me would just park it in my savi…

Giving to everyone is the simplest and cheapest and quickest approach. If you do not need the money just pass it to someone who needs it more.

Yep. Trying to carve out one group or another is exactly how we end up with a convoluted tax system and subsidies.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#117

Post by [deleted] »

ed312 wrote: post #39
shartshooter wrote: post #26

As long as the money is given to folks who need and/or will spend it, it feels like this is the exact situation where the federal government steps in for stimulus. There’s no pull yourself up by your bootstraps talk right now and there shouldn’t be. I know the single parent working a couple of jobs will spend every dime they’re given in a time like this, just to survive. A yuppie like me would just park it in my savi…

It is impossible to know from demographic information alone exactly how people will spend a windfall. If we're doing helicopter money, we should do it for everyone equally. Maybe instead of food I buy a bunch of video games or beer or some other good. Still keeping the economic engine running.

[deleted]

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#118

Post by ouid »

piokoch wrote: post #98
tombert wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree; the only caveat I'd give is that it's tough to say how much longer any of us are going to be yuppies right now; I work for one of the many big megacorporations whose stock is tanking right now. If the stock doesn't pick up soonish, there's a non-zero probability of me being laid off. While I'm not that worried (I've been able to find work in bad economies in the past), I also do feel a bit of paranoia…

Why? The price of the stocks does not affect company in any way. If the company sales are going down or clients stop coming this is an issue, stock value is important only for those who hold/speculate using them. You company has already got the money from selling stocks, nobody is going to take them away.

What about all the companies that have been borrowing vast amounts of money at low interest rates to buy back shares?

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#119

Post by snarf21 »

shartshooter wrote: post #26

As long as the money is given to folks who need and/or will spend it, it feels like this is the exact situation where the federal government steps in for stimulus. There’s no pull yourself up by your bootstraps talk right now and there shouldn’t be. I know the single parent working a couple of jobs will spend every dime they’re given in a time like this, just to survive. A yuppie like me would just park it in my savi…

Morally that is the right choice. Politically, there will never be a way to pick only the people who really need it. Everyone makes that more tenable.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#120

Post by runawaybottle »

optymizer wrote: post #64
abfan1127 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most important aspect of the claim about spending money is the broken window fallacy. Henry Hazlitt wrote a great book on the subject called Economics in One lesson. The simple example is that we can't go around breaking windows to stimulate the economy. Sure, the window manufacturer and the window replacement companies might benefit, however that money which went towards the window could have gone elsewhere. Eng…

"money has to come from somewhere" is not a bad thing. Not all the money is reasonably allocated with equivalent side-effects. For example, it could come from the $748 billion dollars that are allocated for the military budget, which would take away $327 billion and still leave the US as the country spending the most money on the military. Maybe that means we stop wars that break windows in other countries for a year…

We should totally dip into the Pentagon budget for this year, this seems like a no brainer.
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