Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress • Hacker News Board

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#21

Post by seneca » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

samsquire wrote: post #12

The case for unconditional basic income has never been stronger. Especially with disease precluding work.

I'm curious, in current proposals, would a UBI be limited to citizens only? I'm guessing not, given the "universal" nature of it. If that's the case, I can't say I see support for a UBI gaining wide-spread support, or economic viability, in the US without first securing our boarders. It seems mutually exclusive, given that it would result in an unprecedented flood of economic migrants.

I may be misunderstanding the scope of "universal" in this context. If that's the case, I'm curious what the typical requirements for access are.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#22

Post by SilasX » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #9

23B1 wrote: post #2

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/suspend-mortgage-p... 3 signatures so far. If the housing market, core to our economy, can be insulated from a crash rebuilding will be significantly easier.

I think housing market in USA seriously needs a healthy correction to make housing available to masses again

If only the problem weren't self-reinforcing where existing homeowners have the majority of their net worth tied to their home and thus double down on fighting any policy that would reduce home values.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#23

Post by bargl » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #3

Instead of giving money, why not suspend debt payments and interest growth?

If you give money (enough to cover debt payments etc). It's the same thing but you can keep taxing people who can pay debt without problem.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#24

Post by hosh » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

bargl wrote: post #23

sethammons wrote: post #3

Instead of giving money, why not suspend debt payments and interest growth?

If you give money (enough to cover debt payments etc). It's the same thing but you can keep taxing people who can pay debt without problem.

Huh, I just realized tax season is coming up soon.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#25

Post by aoeusnth1 » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #3

Instead of giving money, why not suspend debt payments and interest growth?

You’re suggesting a handout to house owners (especially those with large houses) over renters would be better?

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#26

Post by shartshooter » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

As long as the money is given to folks who need and/or will spend it, it feels like this is the exact situation where the federal government steps in for stimulus.

There’s no pull yourself up by your bootstraps talk right now and there shouldn’t be.

I know the single parent working a couple of jobs will spend every dime they’re given in a time like this, just to survive. A yuppie like me would just park it in my savings account until I feel we hit bottom, then invest it.

I’m not the type of person you want to give money like this to. Save it for folks who are really living hand-to-mouth and don’t shortchange them.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#27

Post by duxup » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #3

Instead of giving money, why not suspend debt payments and interest growth?

I feel like that would advantage folks who have a lot of debt ... who in fact might actually be not in need of assistance as it might otherwise seem.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#28

Post by 23B1 » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

aoeusnth1 wrote: post #25

sethammons wrote: post #3

Instead of giving money, why not suspend debt payments and interest growth?

You’re suggesting a handout to house owners (especially those with large houses) over renters would be better?

Both would be better, obviously. And I don't think any house owners are looking for debt forgiveness, I think they, like renters, know that an economy where there are no jobs but debt is still owed is unsustainable.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#29

Post by abfan1127 » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #19

Economics is an interesting field of study with what seems like endless amount of differing views and such. However, it seems that if you're looking for economic stimulus one of the most sure fire ways / proven ways / agreed upon ways to get bang for the buck is to give poor people money. Poor people will spend it, and you can be pretty dang sure they'll put that money into the economy and quickly. I'm all for it.

The most important aspect of the claim about spending money is the broken window fallacy. Henry Hazlitt wrote a great book on the subject called Economics in One lesson.

The simple example is that we can't go around breaking windows to stimulate the economy. Sure, the window manufacturer and the window replacement companies might benefit, however that money which went towards the window could have gone elsewhere.

Engineering taught me one very important lesson. We can never get something for nothing. There is always a trade off. If the government is handing out money, it has to come from somewhere. Its either taxes, which means that tax money collected can't be spent elsewhere. Or it has to be printed, which is inflation.

Some people say, people aren't spending it, they are saving it! Thats important too. Unless they are keeping it in their mattress, that money is deposited in banks, which loan out the money for capital improvements, etc.

Lastly, my anecdotal experience is that "free money" tends to be squandered more than earned money. Which means poorly allocated funds towards resources less valuable to a strong economy.

Re: Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Support in Congress

#30

Post by pingyong » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

Hmm. A lot of businesses will get into big trouble over the coming weeks and potentially months. Bars, event organizers, even shopping malls. They're all going to go down to almost zero profit for a while.

The problem is if you just give people money right now, they literally can't spend it on those things because they are or will be closed during that time. Money isn't the reason they're not going, Corona is.

The money would be spent on things that are doing well now anyway (rent, food and netflix/videogames/etc.).

Maybe right now the focus should be on not making people homeless, but then giving people money after the crisis so they can spend it in the industries that are suffering right now.