Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 474 posts

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#291

Post by hobs »

sub7 wrote: post #284
zentiggr wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that you say a class of beggars would be created, when most UBI scenarios I've read about show that people tend to try to improve their situations in whichever way makes the most sense... some who can finally afford basic water food and housing start seeking medical/psych help they couldn't afford. Some get more schooling to improve their employment prospects. Some buy a car to start saving themselves hour…

I really want capitalism to give you a wage to do all those things. I understand it's been cronified and monopoloies have fucked over a whole lot of people. The real fix is to fix capitalism, not write you a check every month for being born. We need to enforce fair markets, fair wages etc. For those at the very bottom, I want dignity, a free education, and if still unsuccessful access to a low skill job that can pay…

And what about when automation makes more and more human work obsolete? And when will the power imbalance in capitalism actually produce fairness? Ever?

You are going to have to find a different way to solve those problems than wage slavery.

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#292

Post by Intermernet »

The combination of UBI and universal health care would mean that combating a pandemic would be much easier than it currently is. Everyone stays at home and self isolates for 2 weeks. Curve flattened. Bills payed.

Ah well, it's a pity the side effects apparently include some McCarthyist caricature of communism /s

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#293

Post by eckmLJE »

jimmysacks wrote: post #288
JDiculous wrote: post #242

One day we will look at all the homelessness and blatant poverty in our society we allow in absolute disgust, similar to the repulsion people feel about slavery. UBI isn't just about liberty and accelerating ourselves forward (though it's also about that), it's a statement that no matter how dire your circumstances, no matter how useless you are seen to our corporate overlords and private employers, that you belong t…

Its allowed to continue because some are mentally Ill and refuse to get treated (and we can't force them into treatment) and some make poor life decisions like having multiple children with no means to support them (you have the freedom to do this). You can't just give money to someone mentally Ill or will just squander the money and continue to make bad decisions. We will still have just as much poverty and homeless…

Just as much? Mental health crises are exacerbated by desperate conditions like not having a home. The two are linked and keeping someone with bipolar disorder who has just lost their job from ending up on the street in the first place would head off a lot of cases of individuals going off the deep end in the face of despair and nowhere to go.

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#294

Post by theklub »

bavell wrote: post #90
beastcoast wrote: post #71

The problem with UBI is that most versions of it would essentially liquidate social services that people would normally receive. UBI only makes sense in addition to the other parts of a comprehensive safety net (universal housing and healthcare), not as a replacement.

Why would I choose to jump through bureaucratic and degrading welfare programs for vouchers and discounts when I can opt-in to a superior UBI program that gives me cash which I can use for anything? I'm the one who best knows how to effectively allocate those resources in my life. E.g. What good are food stamps when I have no gas (or car) to get to the store? There are some social services that are necessary and bene…

How many people would take UBI, buy drugs, alcohol, hell go down to the casino every month and blow it all in 30 seconds....

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#295

Post by forkexec »

jimmysacks wrote: post #288
JDiculous wrote: post #242

One day we will look at all the homelessness and blatant poverty in our society we allow in absolute disgust, similar to the repulsion people feel about slavery. UBI isn't just about liberty and accelerating ourselves forward (though it's also about that), it's a statement that no matter how dire your circumstances, no matter how useless you are seen to our corporate overlords and private employers, that you belong t…

Its allowed to continue because some are mentally Ill and refuse to get treated (and we can't force them into treatment) and some make poor life decisions like having multiple children with no means to support them (you have the freedom to do this). You can't just give money to someone mentally Ill or will just squander the money and continue to make bad decisions. We will still have just as much poverty and homeless…

Shame on you. Your hateful and ignorant stereotypes are defective victim blaming and based on myths. The US has almost no mental healthcare system because JFK was assassinated before the transition to community-based residential treatment centers could be stood-up. Reagan destroyed what remained and condemned the mentally-unwell to neglect and misery.

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#296

Post by akdor1154 »

jimmysacks wrote: post #288
JDiculous wrote: post #242

One day we will look at all the homelessness and blatant poverty in our society we allow in absolute disgust, similar to the repulsion people feel about slavery. UBI isn't just about liberty and accelerating ourselves forward (though it's also about that), it's a statement that no matter how dire your circumstances, no matter how useless you are seen to our corporate overlords and private employers, that you belong t…

Its allowed to continue because some are mentally Ill and refuse to get treated (and we can't force them into treatment) and some make poor life decisions like having multiple children with no means to support them (you have the freedom to do this). You can't just give money to someone mentally Ill or will just squander the money and continue to make bad decisions. We will still have just as much poverty and homeless…

You seem to be suggesting that everyone stuck in poverty is there because they are mentally ill or are incapable of making good life choices... which is outrageously false.

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#297

Post by Shivetya »

JDiculous wrote: post #242

One day we will look at all the homelessness and blatant poverty in our society we allow in absolute disgust, similar to the repulsion people feel about slavery. UBI isn't just about liberty and accelerating ourselves forward (though it's also about that), it's a statement that no matter how dire your circumstances, no matter how useless you are seen to our corporate overlords and private employers, that you belong t…

Poverty and homelessness will not be solved by throwing money around. It only can be solved if society is willing to understand some people need to be told what to do each step of their lives. It will only be solved if people realize that we will actually have to build housing and make people live there. It will only be solved when people realize that once you get them housed you may need to insure their dietary needs are properly met which means someone else choosing what food is provided. Then after the basics of housing, food, and health, are taking care off, then you can just hand them money to do with as they need. The real bugaboo is when someone realizes that China's one child rule may have been too utopian in a future world, as in assistance may come with restrictions on even starting a family or curtailing family size.

All UBI programs tested or suggested really are nothing more than allowances and cannot solve the problem. The problem is not cheap nor universal. The universal part should be, you cannot fall below this threshold, not that everyone gets the same benefits. That is only being done to sell it when people should just be told, some people need no help currently. It will be there should they need it but right now they don't.

We have many of our problems for two reasons, governments which do not respect the property rights and personal rights of their citizenry and also that there are just people in this world who cannot operate on their own.

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#298

Post by Intermernet »

pshc wrote: post #272
manigandham wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So automate away all the jobs? What are people supposed to do then?

Latte art and craft brewing.

Funnily enough, Australia employs more barristas than coal miners, but the coal mining sector gets more government subsidies than the latte industry.

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#299

Post by madengr »

jimmysacks wrote: post #288
JDiculous wrote: post #242

One day we will look at all the homelessness and blatant poverty in our society we allow in absolute disgust, similar to the repulsion people feel about slavery. UBI isn't just about liberty and accelerating ourselves forward (though it's also about that), it's a statement that no matter how dire your circumstances, no matter how useless you are seen to our corporate overlords and private employers, that you belong t…

Its allowed to continue because some are mentally Ill and refuse to get treated (and we can't force them into treatment) and some make poor life decisions like having multiple children with no means to support them (you have the freedom to do this). You can't just give money to someone mentally Ill or will just squander the money and continue to make bad decisions. We will still have just as much poverty and homeless…

Many will turn right around and spend it on drugs.

Re: What If Andrew Yang Was Right?

#300

Post by Goronmon »

sub7 wrote: post #285
DagAgren wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People know what they need to spend their money on. Telling them what they can and can't do with it is both patronising and counter-productive. Let the person who is affected by the choices make the choices.

Patronizing and counter productive is giving people money for nothing. It's telling people that they're useless. You should read up on the beggar networks in India and the exploitation that occurs when you handout money for no work.

Patronizing and counter productive is giving people money for nothing. It's telling people that they're useless.

I would disagree that a person "use" is defined solely by the type of job they have.

Post reply on HN