Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#101

Post by thunderthunder » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:08 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #87

lacker wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just buy it over-the-counter in some countries, right? How dangerous can it really be? Follow the instructions on the box like citizens of those countries do. IMO we in the US need to take the coronavirus as a wake up call to stop ignoring the medical systems of other countries and admit that they might have something to teach us. We shouldn’t just assume the American medical system is always the best one.

> You can just buy it over-the-counter in some countries, right? How dangerous can it really be? That's absolutely meaningless, some countries are nuts. Just about anything gets sold over the counter somewhere. There's even countries where guns are sold over the counter.

What kind insane countries could that be? Sounds like a black mirror episode ;-)

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#102

Post by nikkwong » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:09 AM UTC

ailideex wrote: post #95

nikkwong wrote: post #94

Why haven't the markets reacted positively to this news?

You know, I read this, and then I read other things implying we will fix climate change from this crisis, and I wonder ... The markets has not reacted positively to this news because something possibly helping makes no difference. Actually making a difference to the situation makes a difference. Until the point where there clearly is something that makes a difference the outlook is really bleak.

I suppose that may be the case. But let me play devil's advocate against it. Markets are supposed to price in values from expected future returns. Since this is "a cure", there should be positive sentiment for the future economic environment rather than the current negative sentiment.

The paper says that people are being successfully treated with this medication. It sounds like a slam dunk and a definite end to all the uncertainty we're experiencing. It's somewhat akin to magically having a vaccine available today, no? A situation in which we'd expect markets to react positively. Maybe, this information has not disseminated widely enough in the media, and the markets are acting as a trailing, not leading, indicator.

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#103

Post by adv0r » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:13 AM UTC

There are at least several other sources talking about this, from more than 20 days ago. Try to google the spanish word: Cloroquina

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32147496

https://gacetamedica.com/investigacion/covid-19-el-fosfato-d...

https://www.sadi.org.ar/novedades/item/931-covid-19-uso-de-c...

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#104

Post by adrianN » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:14 AM UTC

aksss wrote: post #97

ggm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the plus side, its cheap. So, absent drug companies motivations to make cheap drugs (low) it is affordable at scale, and if it turned out to be useful e.g. early in the stage of the disease, this might be very good for wild infections. Or, maybe it points to drugs which are safer, equally cheap, and able to be made with less side effects. (see rule one: this is not medical advice)

Cheapish - as I recall about $300 for 90-day supply of generic hydroxychloroquine if paying cash in US. I mean, not cancer drug spends but if you are on it for life it’s an annoying annual expense.

US drug prices are pretty crazy. A random search in an internet pharmacy shows 100 tablets of 200mg hydroxychloroquine is like 30€ in Germany.

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#105

Post by dreamcompiler » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:19 AM UTC

spitfire wrote: post #68

So I’m not seeing mention of this anywhere else chloroquine is being talked about. Chloroquine used to be taken daily in many of the tropical Britain colonies suffering from malaria. chloroquine in the form of quinine is where the gin and tonic drink came from. Quinine mixed with carbonated water was drunk as a prophylactic. The quinine tasted so terrible it had to be cut with something to make it tolerable - gin! Th…

Quinine is one of the most bitter substances in the world. In capsule form it's not used much any more for malaria because the taste of the dust on the outside of the capsule made people throw up. The amount in tonic water is tiny compared to what you need if you have malaria.

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#106

Post by dreamcompiler » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:23 AM UTC

aksss wrote: post #97

ggm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the plus side, its cheap. So, absent drug companies motivations to make cheap drugs (low) it is affordable at scale, and if it turned out to be useful e.g. early in the stage of the disease, this might be very good for wild infections. Or, maybe it points to drugs which are safer, equally cheap, and able to be made with less side effects. (see rule one: this is not medical advice)

Cheapish - as I recall about $300 for 90-day supply of generic hydroxychloroquine if paying cash in US. I mean, not cancer drug spends but if you are on it for life it’s an annoying annual expense.

I checked into this recently because a family member takes it for lupus. It's 10x to 30x more expensive in the US than everywhere else in the world.

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#107

Post by service_bus » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:25 AM UTC

spitfire wrote: post #68

So I’m not seeing mention of this anywhere else chloroquine is being talked about. Chloroquine used to be taken daily in many of the tropical Britain colonies suffering from malaria. chloroquine in the form of quinine is where the gin and tonic drink came from. Quinine mixed with carbonated water was drunk as a prophylactic. The quinine tasted so terrible it had to be cut with something to make it tolerable - gin! Th…

It's totally unreasonable.

There isn't enough quinine in tonic water to benefit you and the alcohol is going to leach nutrients that your body needs, lower your white blood cell count, kill good flora in your mouth, lower your body's immune response, and leave you more susceptible to catching the virus.

You shouldn't present nonsense as fact, it doesn't help anyone, and in this case is actively dangerous.

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#108

Post by baybal2 » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:27 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #104

aksss wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheapish - as I recall about $300 for 90-day supply of generic hydroxychloroquine if paying cash in US. I mean, not cancer drug spends but if you are on it for life it’s an annoying annual expense.

US drug prices are pretty crazy. A random search in an internet pharmacy shows 100 tablets of 200mg hydroxychloroquine is like 30€ in Germany.

Quinine course used to cost around 1.5 RMBs in 1998.

Managed to catch malaria in Hebei out of all places, during my first trips to China with my father.

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#109

Post by gmac » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:30 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #104

aksss wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheapish - as I recall about $300 for 90-day supply of generic hydroxychloroquine if paying cash in US. I mean, not cancer drug spends but if you are on it for life it’s an annoying annual expense.

US drug prices are pretty crazy. A random search in an internet pharmacy shows 100 tablets of 200mg hydroxychloroquine is like 30€ in Germany.

Indeed. Another example: https://twitter.com/jawj/status/1199026735980990465

Re: Chloroquine has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of Covid-19

#110

Post by nikkwong » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:33 AM UTC

nikkwong wrote: post #102

ailideex wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I read this, and then I read other things implying we will fix climate change from this crisis, and I wonder ... The markets has not reacted positively to this news because something possibly helping makes no difference. Actually making a difference to the situation makes a difference. Until the point where there clearly is something that makes a difference the outlook is really bleak.

I suppose that may be the case. But let me play devil's advocate against it. Markets are supposed to price in values from expected future returns. Since this is "a cure", there should be positive sentiment for the future economic environment rather than the current negative sentiment. The paper says that people are being successfully treated with this medication. It sounds like a slam dunk and a definite end to all t…

After reading a bit more, maybe it's not such a panacea. Seems like it's standard of care, but may not help patients who have advanced symptoms; and, obviously, does not prevent infection. Therefore it may not stop us from imposing the preventative measures (quarantine, travel restrictions, the like) which are causing all the economic catastrophe. Still, seems like it would push a bit of a positive spin on things rather than allowing the economic free-fall we've witnessed.