Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#201

Post by majormajor » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #165

totalZero wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A buyback is a form of capital return to shareholders. Improvements in leg room, amenities, services, infrastructure, etc, are a form of capital return to customers. When executive compensation is tied to operating profit or market capitalization, there is an incentive to reduce the product quality (the air traveler experience, in this case) to the minimum competitive level and boost the share price. A buyback boosts…

Why is a buyback worse than a dividend? Both are a form of delivering ROI, it just happens that one is better for shareholders due to the tax system. In fact if airlines had actually reinvested that money, they would be even more fucked up than they are now. At least now they have free cash flow to make a temporary drop in revenue hurt less. Reinvesting money in the corporate world often involves converting cash flow…

I don't understand who buybacks are better for. A dividend would've returned money to all the people who held onto shares and wasn't paying attention to how much they should be selling off to capture the buyback and just had all the gains wiped out...

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#202

Post by kevindong » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:07 AM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #12

I mean, here in Brooklyn you literally cannot order AmazonFresh. No delivery slots no matter how far in the future you scroll. And it's been this way for at least a couple of days now. So makes sense.

When Amazon is the seller, I can't find any available timeslots in my part of Brooklyn.

When Whole Foods (basically Amazon, but not technically) is the seller, there's one availability for 6pm tomorrow.

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#203

Post by boomboomsubban » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:08 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #165

totalZero wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A buyback is a form of capital return to shareholders. Improvements in leg room, amenities, services, infrastructure, etc, are a form of capital return to customers. When executive compensation is tied to operating profit or market capitalization, there is an incentive to reduce the product quality (the air traveler experience, in this case) to the minimum competitive level and boost the share price. A buyback boosts…

Why is a buyback worse than a dividend? Both are a form of delivering ROI, it just happens that one is better for shareholders due to the tax system. In fact if airlines had actually reinvested that money, they would be even more fucked up than they are now. At least now they have free cash flow to make a temporary drop in revenue hurt less. Reinvesting money in the corporate world often involves converting cash flow…

>it just happens that one is better for shareholders due to the tax system.

This would make buybacks worse than dividends for everyone who isn't a shareholder.

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#204

Post by opportune » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:10 AM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #203

opportune wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a buyback worse than a dividend? Both are a form of delivering ROI, it just happens that one is better for shareholders due to the tax system. In fact if airlines had actually reinvested that money, they would be even more fucked up than they are now. At least now they have free cash flow to make a temporary drop in revenue hurt less. Reinvesting money in the corporate world often involves converting cash flow…

>it just happens that one is better for shareholders due to the tax system. This would make buybacks worse than dividends for everyone who isn't a shareholder.

Sure. Just like it's worse for everybody that I try to max my investments in my 401k before contributing to after tax accounts.

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#205

Post by opportune » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:19 AM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #201

opportune wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a buyback worse than a dividend? Both are a form of delivering ROI, it just happens that one is better for shareholders due to the tax system. In fact if airlines had actually reinvested that money, they would be even more fucked up than they are now. At least now they have free cash flow to make a temporary drop in revenue hurt less. Reinvesting money in the corporate world often involves converting cash flow…

I don't understand who buybacks are better for. A dividend would've returned money to all the people who held onto shares and wasn't paying attention to how much they should be selling off to capture the buyback and just had all the gains wiped out...

Absent a market selloff, they're better for shareholders for two reasons: one, it manifests earnings as capital gains/stock appreciation rather than dividends, and two, it has positive future ROI.

Point 1 is not super important because of the existence of qualified dividends.

Point 2 is like this: let's say I'm a company with 1000 outstanding shares valued at $100 each and want to pay a yearly dividend (for simplicity) of $5/share. All market movements notwithstanding and absent any changes, that means I'm basically giving investors a 5% yearly ROI. But, let's say I instead bought back my shares with all my earnings. The first year, I buy back 5% of the outstanding shares. Now there are 950 outstanding shares and total earnings are still $5000/year. Next year each remaining shareholder gets an extra 5% of earnings per share (this compounds). And rather than pay tax each year on dividends, shareholders defer all their taxes until they exit their position.

One argument is that dividends aren't really worse in this case because investors could still choose to spend the cash on purchasing more shares, accomplishing the same thing. But the deferred taxes change the math.

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#206

Post by reaperducer » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:19 AM UTC

cstejerean wrote: post #160

reaperducer wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Bezos needs an evil villain lair for his secret headquarters, I know a fortress in the American desert with three-foot-thick stone walls, solar and diesel electricity, and its own water facilities, perched on a mountain ridge for maximum visibility 150 miles from anywhere meaningful. Last I saw, it was for sale for $750k.

do you have a link?

Like so many of the good things in life, this is not on the internet.

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#207

Post by jcrites » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:22 AM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #27

robotnikman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I honestly don't mind if my orders are arriving a little later, I just hope they treat their warehouse workers better.

I wish they'd treat their warehouse workers better, and pay a fair tax, so until they do I'm not buying anything from Amazon . I use alternative, usually local or national rather than multinational, suppliers.

Can you clarify what you mean by "pay a fair tax"? I would assume that Amazon (like most publicly traded companies) pays all the taxes that it's required to by law.

> “Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands.”

-- Judge Learned Hand (1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#208

Post by boomboomsubban » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:24 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #204

boomboomsubban wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it just happens that one is better for shareholders due to the tax system. This would make buybacks worse than dividends for everyone who isn't a shareholder.

Sure. Just like it's worse for everybody that I try to max my investments in my 401k before contributing to after tax accounts.

There's a fairly noticeable difference in scale here for a start, but everyone benefits from you not needing outside assistance in your old age.

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#209

Post by vonmoltke » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #162

asdff wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are open in Southern California, but running out of basics fast. I noticed a complete lack of certain produce, milk, eggs, bread, as well as the oft meme'd paper products. Every morning I go to the grocery store in my neighborhood looking for toilet paper and every morning there is some new staple nearly out of stock. I still have a few rolls left, and amazon seems to have a few remaining in stock, so things are…

Thus far the consumables supply chain in the US hasn’t been too badly effected. They’re doing thanksgiving or more amounts of business every day here in Seattle but they’re mostly keeping up. Whether we as a nation rip ourselves apart is on each of us as individuals to make that not happen.

Grocery stores in my part of northern New Jersey are not keeping up, at the moment. On Saturday I was unable to buy fresh meat (of any kind), sausage (without cheese in it), flour, pasta, or canned beans. Produce pickings were slim, and most items were sold out. Ditto canned soup and bread. That's just the things I was actually looking for; there were plenty of other bare shelves throughout the store.

Re: Amazon to hire 100k warehouse and delivery workers

#210

Post by learc83 » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #119

turbostyler wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live that you can leave packages outside for more than an hour?

My neighborhood has eight houses per acre. We've had no problems with stolen packages even when left out overnight. This is the exurban fringe of metro Atlanta.

You're on the exurban fringe and you're at .125 acre lots?