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Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

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11–20 of 148 posts

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#11
I really like this as DIY - I also found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okg7uq_HrhQ - explaining how the virus eventually kills by causing failure of the lungs. After explaining the functional parts he goes on to explain what seem like some interesting things to consider when designing a ventilator with respect to how they were used during the SARS outbreak. e.g. tidal forces causing iteration and more inflammation, which then cuts off more air flow. So thinking about how you maintain a constant air pressure instead of more pushing force... at least the explanation made sense intuitively but I'm not a doctor and don't know if this video or your Ventilator are safe - but I do like the DIY aspect of it and figure thinking about or sharing ideas can't be bad...

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#13
post #4

All these things bug me because it is very easy to hurt your lungs with a ventilator.

Death is also an easy way to hurt your lungs. I hope nobody is dumb enough to use something like this in place of visiting a hospital, but if hospitals are overrun this is better than nothing.

There has to be some middle ground risk between rolling in random but well intentioned pieces of equipment vs rejecting them because they haven't followed a conventional months long vetting and review.

I wonder what kind of expert rapid requirements review and qualification process could be created?

The comparable risk if the system is overwhelmed is life losses in triage or outright using using medical personnel as human ventilators - causing fatigue and mistakes too.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lock down a list of concerns, max / min pressures, limits of pressure change rates, etc. Generalize the device so it can be dialed in. If a ventilator can be powered by a brushed motor blower, this is quite doable and scaleable. There are unique opportunities to get maker grade devices enhanced and tested for production when lives are being lost. Certainly worth the effort while we sit on the sidelines.

Cool, now how are you going to manage the countless other aspects of critical care? By the time you need a vent, you need a ton of other things as well.

100% this. I'd been curious why I wasn't seeing discussion of negative pressure ventilators, also known as iron lungs, but more recent commentary that I've seen notes that the positive pressure is needed in part to force oxygen into the blood. Apparently with Coronavirus sick lungs are wet lungs and wet lungs don't work as well. That would imply that you also are going to need a supply of oxygen at a higher concentration than in the air which would imply either an oxygen generator or reliable tank based supply system. Other discussions I saw excluded concerns about significantly increased volume of aerosolized infectious droplets from improperly used ventilators.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#15

BEWARE: Even medical grade ventilator / CPAP is dangerous.

Understatement of the year, it's probably more dangerous to use these at home than just using simple oxygen and someone to help you remember to breathe for a few days. If you're to the point that you need a ventilator for covid-19, you're also going to need a ton of meds and attention from trained medical staff. I could see a CPAP machine being useful for lighter cases just to help out, but even then I'm not a doctor.

Some things are good to DIY, but not this, we need HN to stop allowing these dangerous posts.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#16
post #4

All these things bug me because it is very easy to hurt your lungs with a ventilator.

Death is also an easy way to hurt your lungs. I hope nobody is dumb enough to use something like this in place of visiting a hospital, but if hospitals are overrun this is better than nothing.

No, this is just something. This something is not necessarily better than nothing.

It could be an awful lot worse than nothing, especially since it's coming from GitHub and not somewhere like the Red Cross or MSF, with experience of medical care in tough environments , that knows the difference between "actually better than nothing" and "just something".

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#17
Actually, Resmed and Philips can probably reflash firmware on almost all there basic CPAP machines manufactured within past few years, thereby making them into BiPAP type devices. BiPAPs are sort of "in between" a CPAP and a ventilator.

This would actually be a good public service if they would do for free and provide to hospitals, etc. for emergency use.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#19

BEWARE: Even medical grade ventilator / CPAP is dangerous.

I take issue with this claim regarding CPAPs/APAPs There are many doctors who support making CPAP machines purchasable without prescriptions. The story line that they need to remain prescriptions only is, not surprisingly, funding/pushed by sleep clinics and the machine industry players because ... you guessed it ... profit.

I started using an APAP (Resmed10 autoset) about 2 years ago. My sleep study (overnight onsight at clinic) said I needed CPAP for sure and they slapped one on me in the middle of the night to "titrate" it just right for me. After got my machine, they were useless to adjust it. I did bare amount of research and found everything I needed to really adjust settings to work for me over couple months. I don't even take 30 minute nap without it now. Godsend.

I've also snagged the same model machine off ebay with only 30 hours on it (VERY hard to come by because the machine manufacturers are diligent and aggressive in getting them off resale market because of their status as prescribed medical equipment). Anyway, put my brother on said ebay machine, spent week or so of monitoring results and titrating his settings and he has been happy camper since. He had worse apnea than me, but alas no medical coverage at that time.

Of course, ventilators are in different class. That said, keeping CPAPs as prescription only medical devices is a scam and many lives could be extended and saved if could buy without script.

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