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NPM Is Joining GitHub

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Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#331

Post by michaelmior »

mbesto wrote: post #256
allover wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbf Microsoft have won back a lot of good faith with developers due to projects like VS Code and TypeScript, even for those of us who remember their past. And we're yet to hear of any negative impact of their Github acquisition (afaik - correct me if wrong).

> Tbf Microsoft have won back a lot of good faith with developers due to projects like VS Code and TypeScript, even for those of us who remember their past. Those are great until they're not. It's why it's called "bait and switch". > And we're yet to hear of any negative impact of their Github acquisition (afaik - correct me if wrong). ANY ?! Heh, do a quick search just on HN and you'll find it pretty quickly.

I did search, didn't find it quickly. Could you share some sources of the negative impact? (I'm legitimately curious as my use of GitHub hasn't led me to notice any change.)

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#332

Post by ahupp »

sneak wrote: post #125
K0nserv wrote: post #14

This seems like a good outcome overall. NPM being such an important pillar in the software supply chain while having an unviable business model and largely being funded by VC money was never a good position to be in. There are problems with more of the software ecosystem consolidating with a single entity but it still feels like an improvement.

I do not consider the largest distributor of proprietary, closed-source spyware (Windows) owning the fastest growing open source package manager to be a good outcome, personally.

What's the specific outcome you're concerned about?

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#333

Post by noelherrick »

kortilla wrote: post #309
jakelazaroff wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One especially odious thing recently: GitHub works with ICE to round up and terrorize undocumented people and their families. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04...

If you want an action to be made legal, you legalize it. Don’t blame the enforcement of the law. It makes for great virtue signaling but is useless for bringing long-term change and it doesn’t help provide a stable environment for people illegally in the country.

The legislative process is not the only feedback system that is enshrined in the US constitution, else there would be no mention of public gatherings or protests. What you suggest is a false dichotomy.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#334

Post by manigandham »

dlivingston wrote: post #217
impatient_bacon wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari.

Care to explain? Safari has one of the highest standards compliance of any modern browser [0], which IE famously did not. It has been argued with various success [1] that Chrome is the new I.E., due to "Chrome exclusive" web standards. [0]: https://html5test.com/compare/browser/safari-11.2/chrome-30/... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16070595

Safari is way behind Chrome and Firefox on web features and has all kinds of proprietary rules on existing implementations.

It's not even required or the default install on any OS. And it has rapid updates that constantly test new features and improve performance and security.

Any "exclusive" features are just early testing for later standardization. It's Safari that's lagging in implementing them.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#336

Post by jakelazaroff »

kortilla wrote: post #309
jakelazaroff wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One especially odious thing recently: GitHub works with ICE to round up and terrorize undocumented people and their families. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04...

If you want an action to be made legal, you legalize it. Don’t blame the enforcement of the law. It makes for great virtue signaling but is useless for bringing long-term change and it doesn’t help provide a stable environment for people illegally in the country.

ICE itself routinely breaks laws in trying to capture undocumented people. But to speak to your point directly, I would love to see immigration reform. Until then, I’ll absolutely keep speaking out against ICE. That’s not “virtue signaling”, it’s just advocating for a cause I care about.

Furthermore, basically everything Microsoft did that made developers hate them is legal. Why is it okay to hold a grudge for “embrace, extend, extinguish” but not for aiding and abetting an organization that consistently violates our civil liberties?

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#337

Post by manigandham »

judge2020 wrote: post #159
allover wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbf Microsoft have won back a lot of good faith with developers due to projects like VS Code and TypeScript, even for those of us who remember their past. And we're yet to hear of any negative impact of their Github acquisition (afaik - correct me if wrong).

Before someone else comes along and writes a monologue, the biggest downside might be how it handled (didn't break) its contract with ICE[0]. If the acquisition didn't happen, old GitHub might've dropped the contract immediately upon enough employees speaking about it. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21412600

That's a subjective political opinion of a far-left vocal minority. Not everyone has an issue with ICE (a federal law-enforcement agency that stops criminals and saves lives) nor finds a problem with a company legally providing services to the government.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#338

Post by ocdtrekkie »

jchw wrote: post #327
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would generally agree Windows looks more like traditional Microsoft than many other arms of their org. And the Candy Crush thing... like, if it was just Home edition? Fine. If it was even smart enough to realize it need not preinstall that on a domain account (the installation of UWP apps is technically per-user), like, if they'd demonstrated any recognition that Windows is used in professional settings... I'm righ…

I’m a fulltime Firefox user personally, and I have not noticed a whole lot of nag. Does it not show up under Linux or something? edit: So far I’ve tried switching my user agent, turning off adblock, using a private/logged out window, on docs and search. Not that I’m doubting you or anything, but I am surprised I’ve not noticed it much since switching back to Firefox. It’s also probably worth disclosing that I work fo…

This is a 2018 screenshot I took: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoEPgo2V4AA4Ql5?format=jpg&name=...

Your mileage may vary on any given month, as Google frontend code seems to come and go regularly and randomly, indeed varying by platform, OS, and lunar cycle.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#339

Post by filoleg »

sneak wrote: post #273
filoleg wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this comparison seems to be close enough. What about VSCode and Github itself?

The time for GitHub is over. I have moved all of my repositories away from there that do not depend on GitHub-only integrated services, and am migrating my DNS and domains/hosting off of those integrated services this week. You should too. If you work there, you should quit. https://sneak.berlin/20200307/the-case-against-microsoft-and... VS Code has had to fork to remove the unethical spyware portions within it place…

Good for you. However, the general sentiment doesn't seem to behave the same way. I haven't noticed a mass Github exodus at all, aside from some people on the internet being vocal about it for the first month after the Github acquisition. Same with VSCode.

I realize this is just pure anecdata and not a legitimately researched observation, but I don't know a single dev in real life who either switched away from Github or VSCode due to those concerns, despite having a wide variety of dev friends from all kinds of backgrounds, including big tech devs, non-tech company devs, fully remote devs, self-taught devs, small startup devs, outside of the US devs, freelancer devs, etc.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#340

Post by thu2111 »

brunoborges wrote: post #328
bad_user wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maven Central has mirrors and alternatives and you can trivially host your own repository, all you'd need is a plain web server serving a bunch of static files. Some libraries aren't hosted on Maven Central actually, so it's not uncommon to see instructions for adding extra resolvers to your build config. The Java ecosystem isn't as dependent on Maven Central as the JavaScript ecosystem is on npmjs.com

Almost every library out there is on Maven Central. Even Oracle JDBC drivers are now (finally) on Maven Central. If MC goes away as it exists today, the Java Ecosystem will take a huge hit as almost every open source project would stop building in CICD environments from the get-go.

If it vanished instantly then yes, but a huge number of packages on Central are mirrors from jcenter. There are not only theoretical competitors to Maven Central but an actual widely used one (jcenter/bintray), which is easier to use anyway. There's also jitpack too. So people could migrate pretty quickly to alternatives.
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