Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 287 posts

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#171

Post by neuronic »

Gunax wrote: post #18
vearwhershuh wrote: post #13

This is how we should manage the money supply, and it should be monthly. Direct, debt free issuance of a citizens dividend to every US citizen. Coupled with a wind-down of the debt bubble. Maybe take Steve Keen's idea and require that a certain portion of the payment be used to extinguish any debts. Unfortunately whenever a president starts talking about this, he has a tendency to be shot.

Let's make it 10k per month, then we can all be wealthy.

Are you scared that others will also get money, just like you? Any noble status to lose or something??

What is this comment? I seriously don't get it. Government money is money by the people for the people.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#172

Post by GeorgeWBasic »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #130
wraithKingPrime wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's borderline irrelevant. I'd want to see things like rent/mortgage payments alleviated or suspended for the duration.

Pretty much everybody has either rent or a mortgage. Therefore giving someone $1000 towards their rent/mortgage is basically equivalent to just giving them $1000, except that it's a ton of extra administrative complexity and it also screws over a few people who somehow don't qualify but still need help. Whereas if you make the assistance "we pay the amount of your mortgage" instead of "we pay $1000" then you're givin…

That's not what he said. He didn't say, "give everyone $1000 towards their rent or mortgage". He said, temporarily suspend all rent and mortgage payments. As in, nobody pays any of it. Recurring expenses are what's going to destroy the economy so thoroughly that the great depression will look like a minor downtown. If nobody gets kicked out because they can't pay rent, or their mortgage, or the lease on their business, things might actually be able to resume once there's a handle on this.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#173

Post by dionidium »

baumy wrote: post #147
dionidium wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imagine the headlines by Fox News as soon as they find 4 people living together playing video games all day. or smoking pot. or etc. You're right that it'll require a pretty fundamental shift in attitude. Some folks will still think people like that are losers. That's fine. But maybe we'll get to a point where they won't think such people, losers that they may be, are doing anything they're not entitled to be doing.…

This comment is very weird to me. The hypothetical group of stoned gamers being discussed are certainly entitled to choose to spend their time smoking weed and playing games. I don't see how it follows that they're entitled to me subsidizing their choices with my tax dollars. I think people who are capable of holding a job / productively contributing to society but choose not to are indeed losers, and I will continue…

Can you explain why I should think otherwise? I'm genuinely curious.

Others have made the case far better than I could here. I wasn't actually trying to argue for or against it, just noting that 1) social perception of "freeloaders" is indeed a barrier to acceptance of UBI (as you succinctly demonstrate); but 2) relatively small shifts in perception could open a path for it, anyway.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#174

Post by xyzzyz »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #169
xyzzyz wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You act like these are wild approaches. But during this this current term we've already done #1 via the 1Trillion tax cuts to mostly the wealthy. $4T a year, required to pay for monthly basic income of $1k to all Americans is much wilder than $1T of tax not collected over 10 years, yes. The former number is 40 times larger than the latter. > Then we've done #3 via re-introducing QE via the fed. No, we've done only…

> $4T a year, required to pay for monthly basic income of $1k to all Americans is much wilder... "one-time payment of $1,000 to every adult who is a U.S. citizen or a taxpaying U.S. resident, and $500 to every child who meets the same criteria." You're arguing against something nobody proposed. Please compare the numbers with whats actually being proposed.

Nobody, except the commenter I directly responded to:

> This is how we should manage the money supply, and it should be monthly.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#175

Post by onetimemanytime »

tln wrote: post #27

How about a $10k loan instead? Zero interest, paid back through IRS over 10 years, with decreasing amounts available based on last years income.

Need based maybe. But $10K in one shot might be hard to pay and easy to spend

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#176

Post by ptruesdell »

erobbins wrote: post #153

Honestly I'd like to see a 1 month quarantine, with the US government guaranteeing the wages of everyone in the workforce for that time. Something like 100% up to 50k/year, 75% of 50-100k, and cap it there. It would cost a few hundred billion dollars but it would keep the "I have to work or be homeless" people from being homeless and allow them to actually stay home for that time.

Just $10k for every full time employee in the US is over 1.3 trillion dollars, so your numbers are pretty far off.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#177

Post by 0x4477 »

dionidium wrote: post #126
maximente wrote: post #57

i just don't see how UBI survives a highly polarized, segregated society pumped out by the US media. imagine the headlines by Fox News as soon as they find 4 people living together playing video games all day. or smoking pot. or etc. in a weird way it dangerously exposes people as, according to "the economy", particularly not valuable. the framing will go: these people are literally doing nothing and we're supporting…

imagine the headlines by Fox News as soon as they find 4 people living together playing video games all day. or smoking pot. or etc. You're right that it'll require a pretty fundamental shift in attitude. Some folks will still think people like that are losers. That's fine. But maybe we'll get to a point where they won't think such people, losers that they may be, are doing anything they're not entitled to be doing.…

> We're never going to agree with everyone else's choices. We need to agree that they're entitled to those choices.

I agree with the sentiment that everyone is entitled to do as they wish, even if I don't like it. This includes the choice to do nothing.

What I do not agree with is their choice to do nothing being subsidized by myself and everyone else who works and contributes to the economy and tax revenue. You are entitled to do whatever you want, but not on someone else's dime.

No one is entitled to things merely by virtue of existing, doubly so if they are able to work or provide for themselves and choose not to.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#178

Post by Cd00d »

29athrowaway wrote: post #152

Should not be for every American but rather people that need it.

Adding 'need' criteria is likely to add bloat, expense, and hoops that people who _do_ need it will not always be able to jump through. Better to create an emergency benefit with as little bureaucracy and paperwork as possible, even if it means that some people that won't feel the impact will still benefit.

We get so caught up in keeping benefits away from the wrong people that we end up simply not providing them broadly enough. It's counterproductive.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#180

Post by throw0101a »

timwaagh wrote: post #135

They tried that in Iran. The result: massive inflation. The system cannot handle such a massive spike in demand especially if production is under strain from covid. It surprises me Romney is for it because he was a politician back when ahmedinejad tried that little stunt.

When has Iran not have massive (>10%) inflation?

* https://tradingeconomics.com/iran/inflation-cpi

Not since at least 1970 AFAICT.

Post reply on HN