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Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

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Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#71

Post by Rebelgecko »

alkonaut wrote: post #69
gopalv wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would young and healthy patients be taking "massive amounts of NSAIDs" if they didn't have co-morbidities? This doesn't really make any sense. There are enough people who have no idea that hang-over + pop-2-advil is a deadly combination in this situation. Also a lot of the "new year, new body" resolution folks start too hard at the gym & then push through with NSAIDs. Young people, particularly the fit, do go t…

"Massive amounts" to me sounds like at least the max dose for at least a week. Taking 2 ibuprofen in a day against a flu like headache is what your doctor recommends, probably. Not exactly a massive amount even if repeated for a week.

I don't know about for the flu, but for other types of injuries doctors will often recommend taking double or triple the recommended dose on the bottle.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#72

Post by pkaye »

wolfi1 wrote: post #10
sgroppino wrote: post #2

From the article: "ACE2 can also be increased by thiazolidinediones and ibuprofen. These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk…

are those ACE inhibitors also prescribed in China? I really doubt that

Why do you doubt they are prescribed in China?

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#73

Post by [deleted] »

sirtoffski wrote: post #70
mrb wrote: post #36

French sources specifically mention severe cases of covid-19 in "young and healthy" patients (eg. see https://lefigaro.fr/sciences/coronavirus-alerte-sur-l-ibupro... ) but this important piece of information has NOT been relayed by international medias. Jean Paul Hamon, medical doctor and president of the Federation of French Doctors said on TV to NOT take NSAIDs (anti-inflammatory drugs) if #covid19 is suspected. Th…

Interesting for sure. When I've first heard reports of ibuprofen + CoV-19, I went to check out what Harvard Health was recommending [0]. Under "What treatments are available to treat coronavirus?": Currently there is no specific antiviral treatment for COVID-19. However, similar to treatment of any viral infection, these measures can help... ... Take acetaminophen, ibuprofen, or naproxen to reduce fever and ease ache…

[deleted]

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#74

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

mrb wrote: post #36

French sources specifically mention severe cases of covid-19 in "young and healthy" patients (eg. see https://lefigaro.fr/sciences/coronavirus-alerte-sur-l-ibupro... ) but this important piece of information has NOT been relayed by international medias. Jean Paul Hamon, medical doctor and president of the Federation of French Doctors said on TV to NOT take NSAIDs (anti-inflammatory drugs) if #covid19 is suspected. Th…

Although it's important to note here that French people take just a completely silly amount of painkillers, so there may be overuse problems being conflated into the recommendations. If your local health authorities say using painkillers is appropriate, I wouldn't rule that out.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10194-008-0046-6

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#75

Post by millzlane »

Donzo wrote: post #66
Alex3917 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would young and healthy patients be taking "massive amounts of NSAIDs" if they didn't have co-morbidities? This doesn't really make any sense. Normally when you see young people taking large doses of NSAIDs, it's because they're either elite athletes or have an autoimmune disease or something.

Lots of people take Ibuprofen when they have a fever.

Or even an minor ache

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#76

Post by nradov »

earthtourist wrote: post #48

Any information on cough suppressants? Whether they're a good or bad for people with COVID-19? I've had my doctor recommend against cough suppressants in the past. But I've had trouble sleeping with a bad cough, and so if cough suppressants make sleep possible, it seems like a net-win. Is there any data yet?

Are you asking about dextromethorphan or some other cough suppressant? I don't think there's any real evidence one way or the other yet.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#77

Post by onetimemanytime »

wolfi1 wrote: post #10
sgroppino wrote: post #2

From the article: "ACE2 can also be increased by thiazolidinediones and ibuprofen. These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk…

are those ACE inhibitors also prescribed in China? I really doubt that

any reason to doubt it? I mean they are made of flesh and blood as well.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#78

Post by Engineering-MD »

throwawayy477 wrote: post #14
dmurray wrote: post #5

Ibuprofen, along with paracetamol, is generally considered very safe. All over the world they are prescribed for any kind of pain, fever, inflammation or discomfort. Of course, there are some known side effects, but they are generally considered minor. Does it make sense that a virus would evolve to favour these conditions? Or is it just an unfortunate coincidence? I guess it depends on whether the virus being "worse…

Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammation drug, which means it weakens somewhat your immune system (which is responsible for the inflammation in the first place). It makes sort of sense that taking such medication while infected with a virus for which there is no treatment can be dangerous. In related news, there have been cases of "severe" forms of Covid-19 among young people with no antecedents, all of them having taken ib…

Inflammatory response is not the immune system. Both are intertwined but this should not be misread to say they are the same thing. Although I don’t disagree with your statement. There is possible reason against and no evidence that it (or paracetamol for that matter) improves outcomes.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#79

Post by mikedilger »

snapetom wrote: post #65
chrismeller wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that lisinopril (Prinivil, Zestrel, etc, an ACE inhibitor) is, according to any list I could find, easily in the top 10 meds prescribed in the US (and by some top three or number one), this is something that should definitely be more publicly known. I’m not saying anyone should just stop taking their hypertension drugs, that’s a horrible idea. But if you do suspect that you might have COVID-19, you should…

ACE != ACE2. ACE inhibitors have no effect on ACE2. https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/y02-021

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26859747_Upregulati...

"Upregulation of angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) 2 in hepatic fibrosis by ACE inhibitors"

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#80

Post by fragmede »

throwawayy477 wrote: post #20
neuronic wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you putting severe in quotation marks? What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum? There might be negatives to taking ibuprofen in relation to COVID-19, but so far no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories. Responsible institutes have not handed out such advice, nowhere.

> Why are you putting severe in quotation marks? Because I don't know the official terminology. >What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum? Because of where I work I have been given "primary sources", but of course you are free to not believe me. This is my own sentiment, feel free to look things up yourself. > no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories. Not in the US, maybe,…

It's unclear if English is your first language or not, but in case there is confusion resulting from this, quotation marks around a word is sometimes used to indicate sarcasm.

In this context, it could be read that you don't believe that Covid-19 is at all serious - that the effects are "no worse than the flu".

I don't know if you believe that, or if that is your intention, but there are some that are claiming this pandemic is a 'media hoax'. As you can imagine, that is a very emotionally expensive viewpoint to have to fight, especially when it's an at-risk loved one who is making that claim.

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