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Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

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Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#51

Post by greggman3 »

ohiovr wrote: post #35
sbuttgereit wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely the sort of comment that not only makes social networking a medium with nearly no real value, but actually dangerous. The commentator comes here with some assumptions, perhaps some hearsay, and an emotional attachment to their position and make the statement as though it's fact. In this comment, you know what's missing? Actual knowledge, actual reasoning, and actual facts to back up the his/her clai…

tylonol is safer than ibuprofen if you have covid19. But you don't have to believe me as I read and don't make bibliographies in all of my posts. But I will make an exception for you. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

your link does not support what you wrote. You wrote

> "Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammation drug, which means it weakens somewhat your immune system"

The article says

> anti-inflammatory drugs are known to be a risk for those with infectious illnesses because they tend to diminish the response of the body’s immune system.

weakens the immune system != weakens the response of the immune system

As for ibuprofen vs tylonol there's this

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/505/use-only-as-directed

ibuprofen may or may not be worse for you if you catch covid-19 but tylonol has never worked for me personally.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#52

Post by exdsq »

throwawayy477 wrote: post #20
neuronic wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you putting severe in quotation marks? What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum? There might be negatives to taking ibuprofen in relation to COVID-19, but so far no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories. Responsible institutes have not handed out such advice, nowhere.

> Why are you putting severe in quotation marks? Because I don't know the official terminology. >What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum? Because of where I work I have been given "primary sources", but of course you are free to not believe me. This is my own sentiment, feel free to look things up yourself. > no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories. Not in the US, maybe,…

If you're a medical professional and you've seen numerous papers or reports coming in that ibuprofen is a factor in the severity of Covid-19, why do you need to use a throw away account? Why can't you say where this information has come from?

I've seen this topic shot down by doctors on Twitter - a throw away account quoting "primary sources" is unlikely to convince many of us! Can you expand with something a bit more concrete? For example, where are these guidelines that are saying not to us ibuprofen?

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#53

Post by robocat »

topkai22 wrote: post #32
zackmorris wrote: post #19

I'm wondering if some of the downside of anti-inflammatories is that they often lower fevers. A fever is the body's natural response to infection, to raise the rate of chemical reactions and make more immune cells: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111101130200.h... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869589/ I also think that this is part of the mechanism that makes zinc effective against virus…

Good summary, althoughI would be more forceful about aspirin- don't use it for children under 12 without a medical professional recommending it. While Reyes syndrome is rare, acetaminophen and ibuprofen are equally effective, available, and do not carry the risk.

Taking too much acetaminophen (Paracetomol) is the most common cause of acute liver failure in the United States.

There has been a huge PR push (in advertising etc) against Aspirin and for other NSAIDs.

Of course, take care, but don’t be sucked in by marketing.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#54

Post by [deleted] »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #47
dukha wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation from French: paracetamol is preferred over nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID). Dose of paracetamol should not exceed 3g/day and doses should be spaced throughout the day.

"Paracetamol" a.k.a. "acetaminophen", common brand: Tylenol.

[deleted]

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#55

Post by [deleted] »

neuronic wrote: post #26
throwawayy477 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you putting severe in quotation marks? Because I don't know the official terminology. >What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum? Because of where I work I have been given "primary sources", but of course you are free to not believe me. This is my own sentiment, feel free to look things up yourself. > no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories. Not in the US, maybe,…

If any official source, regardless of country, recommends to abstain from ibuprofen I would simply like to know. I neither live in the US nor think that scientists and medical personnel in other country are less educated or trained. I think it's about distinguishing important information from stuff people randomly write online because a non-peer reviewed study made a hypothesis . The goal is for everyone around the g…

[deleted]

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#56

Post by exdsq »

guerrilla wrote: post #50
neuronic wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If any official source, regardless of country, recommends to abstain from ibuprofen I would simply like to know. I neither live in the US nor think that scientists and medical personnel in other country are less educated or trained. I think it's about distinguishing important information from stuff people randomly write online because a non-peer reviewed study made a hypothesis . The goal is for everyone around the g…

> If any official source, regardless of country, recommends to abstain from ibuprofen I would simply like to know. It's headline news at the moment. You could just check. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

The reason it's headline news at the moment is because some minister tweeted about the lancet letter this thread is talking about. It's a letter that's not gone through peer review which definitely shouldn't be taken as an official source! Numerous doctors on Twitter have come out and said we shouldn't listen to it too.

Examples: https://twitter.com/notdred/status/1238806682458882049 https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/12389469379166822...

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#57

Post by Alex3917 »

mrb wrote: post #36

French sources specifically mention severe cases of covid-19 in "young and healthy" patients (eg. see https://lefigaro.fr/sciences/coronavirus-alerte-sur-l-ibupro... ) but this important piece of information has NOT been relayed by international medias. Jean Paul Hamon, medical doctor and president of the Federation of French Doctors said on TV to NOT take NSAIDs (anti-inflammatory drugs) if #covid19 is suspected. Th…

Why would young and healthy patients be taking "massive amounts of NSAIDs" if they didn't have co-morbidities? This doesn't really make any sense.

Normally when you see young people taking large doses of NSAIDs, it's because they're either elite athletes or have an autoimmune disease or something.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#58

Post by guerrilla »

exdsq wrote: post #56
guerrilla wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If any official source, regardless of country, recommends to abstain from ibuprofen I would simply like to know. It's headline news at the moment. You could just check. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

The reason it's headline news at the moment is because some minister tweeted about the lancet letter this thread is talking about. It's a letter that's not gone through peer review which definitely shouldn't be taken as an official source! Numerous doctors on Twitter have come out and said we shouldn't listen to it too. Examples: https://twitter.com/notdred/status/1238806682458882049 https://twitter.com/angie_rasmuss…

That the advice of an official is unfounded doesn't mean there wasn't official advice which was what was in question not its veracity.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#59

Post by jcadam »

rakejake wrote: post #37
throwanem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paracetamol (acetaminophen) isn't all that safe. Too high a dose can quickly and irreversibly damage your liver. Many people have died this way. If you're intending to take paracetamol long term, you can do worse than to reduce the stated maximum daily dose on the bottle by 1/4 or 1/2. You'll be less comfortable, sure. But it's called a "liver" because you need one to live. So it's worth a little extra discomfort to…

Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor. Paracetamol is probably as safe as it gets when it comes to drugs in its class. Overdosing is not all that simple and the numbers are high because of the availability and popularity of Paracetamol as a pain-killer and its silent use as a side ingredient in many products. Paracetamol is not as good as Ibuprofen when it comes to killing pain (IMHO), so maybe this causes a tendency to overd…

I have GERD (Gastroesophageal reflux disease) along with mild asthma, and NSAIDs are a big no-no for me. When I was in the Army, the docs handed out bottles of 800mg Ibuprofen tablets like candy for virtually any complaint - I took them because I was young and invincible back then.

These days, I rarely take anything for headaches. If it's bad enough, I'll take the occasional Tylenol (usually after my wife orders me to take something because the pain is making me cranky). Body aches get ice and/or bengay.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#60

Post by arcticbull »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #47
dukha wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation from French: paracetamol is preferred over nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID). Dose of paracetamol should not exceed 3g/day and doses should be spaced throughout the day.

"Paracetamol" a.k.a. "acetaminophen", common brand: Tylenol.

Which is itself the leading cause of acute liver failure in the US. The active dose is very close to the lethal dose, much more so than naproxen or ibuprofen.
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