Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA • Hacker News Board

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#171

Post by einpoklum » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

pandaman wrote: post #162

Apocryphon wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, perhaps conditions haven't been substantially worse than in previous console generations. But it sounds like there's something driving the push towards unionizing/organizing, whatever it is. And it sounds like the general public is more aware it being a brutal industry.

Despite the popular belief, game developers are pretty well paid. Not every indie or QA contractor, of course, but it's a rich industry with 6 figure salaries and profit sharing/royalty bonuses in successful studios. So, of course, any union would love to represent game developers for a share of their income. Likewise, you don't often hear of, say, restaurant workers needing union representation because they do not m…

> So, of course, any union would love to represent game developers for a share of their income

You're talking about the large, collaborationist unions we know in the US - e.g. those in the AFL-CIO - where "the union" is an external entity to "the unionizing workers"; and often with the bureaucratic motivations you describe. I specifically mentioned that's not the kind of unionization I advise.

Also, payment is just one of many issues in a workplace. The basic need for a union is that the company's owners have the mechanisms for thinking, discussing, deciding acting collectively and concertedly, but its employees do not. That's what a union should be.

On that basis, employees may want to tackle issues like:

* Treatment by managers/management * Workplace culture * Physical working conditions * Workforce size vs. "squeezing" of existing employees * Advancement opportunities within the company/organization * Professional standards

and so on.

Finally, remember that a gaming development house has a lot of employees other than developers per se: QA, art, production, administrative etc.

> Nowadays people mostly crunch ... or because they are paid OT.

If people make a good salary, they don't work overtime because they don't need to. There must be some kind of psychological pressure in that direction. Overwork should be avoided.

- who have joint interests and may wish to discuss things, take decisions, and act collect

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#172

Post by Apocryphon » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #167

Apocryphon wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You set the boundary at high profile, I did not. If I recall early, my original comment is "is surely causing something to change." I made no attempt to quantify how much, nor the rate, nor the acceleration of change.

> Prior to this, and at Kickstarter, there were no high-profile tech unions. Now there is at least two. Now you might not consider that substantially more, but that's still definitely more. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22571261

Just because Glitch joined CWA instead of forming their own union does not erase the fact that they are a tech company that became a union shop. And 2 is definitely more than 0, that's just simple arithmetic.

Finally, I never said "high-profile" had to mean FAANG. These two are high-profile cases that gets public attention- not necessarily because the media is manufacturing a narrative, but because Kickstarter, for its small size, is a household name. And Glitch is the successor of Fog Creek Software- this company, as well as Anil Dash and Joel Spolsky, are certainly high-profile names in the tech startup scene. We're not discussing some unknown boutique consultancy.

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#173

Post by pandaman » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

einpoklum wrote: post #171

pandaman wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the popular belief, game developers are pretty well paid. Not every indie or QA contractor, of course, but it's a rich industry with 6 figure salaries and profit sharing/royalty bonuses in successful studios. So, of course, any union would love to represent game developers for a share of their income. Likewise, you don't often hear of, say, restaurant workers needing union representation because they do not m…

> So, of course, any union would love to represent game developers for a share of their income You're talking about the large, collaborationist unions we know in the US - e.g. those in the AFL-CIO - where "the union" is an external entity to "the unionizing workers"; and often with the bureaucratic motivations you describe. I specifically mentioned that's not the kind of unionization I advise. Also, payment is just o…

I am not discussing whatever reasons you envisioned for unionization of our industry from the outside. I am just noting where the unionization effort is actually coming from. Pardon my cynicism, but I don't believe the big union care about anything other than payment, which drives their fees. Otherwise, as I said, they would had been pushing in retail with, at least, same effort as they do in the games industry.

>If people make a good salary, they don't work overtime because they don't need to.

Sure, they don't need to but, nevertheless, they like their fat bonuses.

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#174

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

fiter wrote: post #163

dragonwriter wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're even more compromised if you are removed. Unions (or their leadership) perceived as serving management are removed, invariably and swiftly, by their constituents, whether through decertification or leadership elections.

I cannot tell if you are intentionally misreading my statement. If you are not, what I meant is that the union would be removed.

That's what I am saying, too. I'm just saying that being beholden to management is a more certain way for them to be removed than being adversarial.

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#175

Post by koheripbal » Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

cfqycwz wrote: post #72

lbotos wrote: post #5

Here is a question: Why don't we have more smaller unions in America, but instead these GIANT mega unions? I get collective bargaining is better with more numbers, but it feels like there is no way to have a "new" union exist?

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that bosses will often try to slow down, stymie, or break up organizing drives by dragging out legal arguments at the labor board. This means arguing that the bargaining unit should be broken up, that certain employees are actually supervisors and shouldn't be included, that certain supervisors actually aren't and therefore _should_ be included in the vote, that the prop…

I think part of the problem is that unemployment is so low, that corporations aren't mistreating employees - so the demand for unions is relatively low, compared to historical trends.