Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy • Hacker News Board

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#11

Post by jfritsch1984 » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

laanako08 wrote: post #9

Amygaz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of diabetes in various mouse models. Then there is this thing that bugs me: amount of money spent on finding a treatment vs. preventing type 2 diabetes in the first place. Because 95% of type 2 cases are caused by life style decisions. And as climate change, healthcare costs, covid-19, and other self-inflicted societal crises we prefer to wait until it chronically…

It's worth noting that "lifestyle" decisions, are mostly not decisions. They're based on the systemic implications of a person's class, wealth, and status. If a person has more time, and money, and is of a high-enough class, they will be better educated on self-care and health, will have the time to devote to continually ensuring good health, and will have the money to afford high-quality food and activities. Diabete…

Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically.

Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#12

Post by flexblue » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

chx wrote: post #8

whb07 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't type 2 somewhat reversible by cleaning up diet and a prolonged fast?

Not sure about a prolonged fast but I had my HbA1c levels at 6.8 (very much diabetic) once and by dropping sugar, white flour, white rice and potatoes and generally eating less (fasting is bad as far as I understand) every check I had since has been 5.3 (very much non-diabetic).

What's wrong with (intermittent) fasting? Of course if you don't raise your blood sugar as much by changing the diet, your HbA1c goes down by definition.

However, limiting your feeding window will naturally reduce the amount of time you spend with elevated blood sugar, without any calorie reduction. Again, that'll lower your HbA1c by definition.

Calorie reduction on the other hand can slow down metabolism and cause a yoyo-effect[1].

The real issue is insulin resistance. Even if your blood sugar is "normal", it may take more insulin to achieve those levels. Elevated insulin levels are harmful by themselves. Also, if you go back to your old diet, you will still be insulin resistant.

Intermittent fasting can reduce visceral fat particularly in the liver and improve insulin sensitivity[2].

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5639963/

[2] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/intermittent-fasting-sur...

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#13

Post by Arubis » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #11

laanako08 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that "lifestyle" decisions, are mostly not decisions. They're based on the systemic implications of a person's class, wealth, and status. If a person has more time, and money, and is of a high-enough class, they will be better educated on self-care and health, will have the time to devote to continually ensuring good health, and will have the money to afford high-quality food and activities. Diabete…

Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically. Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.

When you’re sufficiently poor and live in a society that insists that you work to qualify for benefits, you absolutely do not have time to cook healthy meals. Prepared, junky food is a staple.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#14

Post by flexblue » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #11

laanako08 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that "lifestyle" decisions, are mostly not decisions. They're based on the systemic implications of a person's class, wealth, and status. If a person has more time, and money, and is of a high-enough class, they will be better educated on self-care and health, will have the time to devote to continually ensuring good health, and will have the money to afford high-quality food and activities. Diabete…

Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically. Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.

> Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food.

This isn't true, at least in the US. Or maybe we have a very different idea about what "healthy" food is.

Rice, beans and starchy vegetables are problematic for various (different) reasons and non-starchy vegetables generally aren't very nutritious from a macro perspective, which makes them relatively expensive.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#15

Post by RHSeeger » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #5

Kwastie wrote: post #2

Am I assuming correctly that this only applies for type 1 diabetes? With type 2 diabetes the body is in general less sensitive to insulin, more insulin producing cells won't fix the underlying insensitivity issue, right?

High blood sugar is toxic to pancreatic beta cells. Thus, poorly controlled type 2 diabetes typically progress to some degree of insulin-dependent diabetes. That condition is the worst of both worlds; your insulin levels are insufficient, but even supplementing insulin artificially can't bring your blood sugar under control without significant lifestyle changes. Note that beta cells are hardly unique in this regard.…

The reverse tends to also be true. After being a Type 1 diabetic for a good while, it's not uncommon to also start showing signs of insulin resistance (type 2).

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#16

Post by jfritsch1984 » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

flexblue wrote: post #14

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically. Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.

> Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. This isn't true, at least in the US. Or maybe we have a very different idea about what "healthy" food is. Rice, beans and starchy vegetables are problematic for various (different) reasons and non-starchy vegetables generally aren't very nutritious from a macro perspective, which makes them relatively expensive.

Could you tell me why rice and beans are problematic? The studies I know are typically in favor of these kinds of food. Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for survival in elderly people. Is this some kind of carb-phobia?

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#17

Post by jfritsch1984 » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

Arubis wrote: post #13

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically. Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.

When you’re sufficiently poor and live in a society that insists that you work to qualify for benefits, you absolutely do not have time to cook healthy meals. Prepared, junky food is a staple.

If you are well informed you could just cook once a week and eat that. I do that on the weekend with my family of five and it's quite a nice ritual. We cook rice and potatoes, put beans and sauce on top. And then put it in 20 containers for the week. I can prepare these meals within 2 minutes with a microwave. Breakfast is basically the same every day: Oat meal with some fruits. In the evening we eat bread with spread (which we also make on the weekend).

I would say we spend way less on food than your typical American. It's really THAT cheap. Also we have a lot of food for CoViD-19 as we store a lot of food in our cellar all year around (lentils, whole oats, canned beans, etc.).

Ah, and we are not poor in any way. I'm among top 5% in Germany. I think it's just healthy and sustainable (for the same reason we don't own a car).

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#18

Post by pengaru » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

Arubis wrote: post #13

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically. Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.

When you’re sufficiently poor and live in a society that insists that you work to qualify for benefits, you absolutely do not have time to cook healthy meals. Prepared, junky food is a staple.

This is nonsense, you don't even need to cook anything at all to eat healthy from the grocery store.

You just have to get off your ass and actually go buy perishable fresh groceries regularly and plan for the week ahead.

Laziness and convenience prevails.

If it's a lack of time, then it's a lack of time to even hit the grocery store. Which depending on where you live, if it's a food desert situation, may be valid.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#19

Post by pengaru » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 10:49 PM UTC

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #11

laanako08 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that "lifestyle" decisions, are mostly not decisions. They're based on the systemic implications of a person's class, wealth, and status. If a person has more time, and money, and is of a high-enough class, they will be better educated on self-care and health, will have the time to devote to continually ensuring good health, and will have the money to afford high-quality food and activities. Diabete…

Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically. Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.

> When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically.

The EBT program here in the US completely distorts the situation.

My local grocery store serves a very poor community, most of the customers pay with EBT. I get to see what kind of things these folks buy, it's idiotic. We could do a lot of good if EBT were only applicable to fresh perishable goods like produce/eggs/milk/fish/meat.

It almost seems like people on EBT hate themselves for being poor and lean in on being self-destructive while at the store paying for things with EBT. They largely buy processed/prepared junk food, it's unbelievable, but if you view the food they buy as another drug prodding the reward centers of their brains, it's making them feel good in the short-term while giving them diabetes and other ailments in the long-term. EBT enables affording it by being almost equivalent to cash.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#20

Post by flexblue » Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #16

flexblue wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. This isn't true, at least in the US. Or maybe we have a very different idea about what "healthy" food is. Rice, beans and starchy vegetables are problematic for various (different) reasons and non-starchy vegetables generally aren't very nutritious from a macro perspective, which makes them relatively expensive.

Could you tell me why rice and beans are problematic? The studies I know are typically in favor of these kinds of food. Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for survival in elderly people. Is this some kind of carb-phobia?

In the context of T2 diabetes, white rice is a high GI food. Brown rice, legumes and grains contain plant toxins and antinutrients which are poorly researched, but at least anecdotally can cause all kinds of issues especially in sensitive people.

Also, in the west, a lot of the culture of preparing these foods (such as fermenting or vigorous soaking) is bypassed.

> Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for survival in elderly people.

That data suffers from the usual issues related to nutritional studies. Consuming beans in place of donuts may be a good predictor of health, that doesn't mean that beans themselves are healthy relative to other healthy foods.