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Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

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Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#51

Post by superhuzza »

chrisseaton wrote: post #48
evilolive wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask what’s taking the bulk of your weight? For info, six days autonomy and including a bear can I’m hovering around 30lbs which is when the ultralight backpack starts being uncomfortable

> I’m hovering around 30lbs I think that's about 13 kg. For six days? You must be on very limited water each day. 13 kg is running weight.

I assume he's getting water along the way and filtering it, not bringing his water for 6 days. I don't think many people hike out with almost a week's worth of water vs. finding water sources.

Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#52

Post by superhuzza »

chrisseaton wrote: post #49
arethuza wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"75 pounds" That's really heavy - any particular reason you need so much stuff?

> That's really heavy - any particular reason you need so much stuff? 75 pounds is 34 kg. A normally fit person should be able to carry that for several days without issue.

Even if you can, why would you? There's a reason thru-hikers ruthlessly cut back their carrying weight - because you don't actually need that much stuff and it's a literal burden to bear. 75 lbs is almost half my body weight, carrying an extra half-me around is absurd.

Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#53

Post by chrisseaton »

superhuzza wrote: post #52
chrisseaton wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's really heavy - any particular reason you need so much stuff? 75 pounds is 34 kg. A normally fit person should be able to carry that for several days without issue.

Even if you can, why would you? There's a reason thru-hikers ruthlessly cut back their carrying weight - because you don't actually need that much stuff and it's a literal burden to bear. 75 lbs is almost half my body weight, carrying an extra half-me around is absurd.

> Even if you can, why would you?

It's always a trade-off. You can take less equipment with you but be less effective when you get to wherever you're going, or you can take more equipment but have a harder time getting there.

You may simply be doing that something that requires 20 kg + of equipment when you get there, so not much much of a choice.

Weapon systems, communication systems, climbing gear, oxygen, tools, whatever.

Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#54

Post by chrisseaton »

superhuzza wrote: post #51
chrisseaton wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m hovering around 30lbs I think that's about 13 kg. For six days? You must be on very limited water each day. 13 kg is running weight.

I assume he's getting water along the way and filtering it, not bringing his water for 6 days. I don't think many people hike out with almost a week's worth of water vs. finding water sources.

Ok but it's not always possible to resupply like that, hence why someone may be carrying more.

Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#55

Post by KineticLensman »

alexhjones wrote: post #30
jotm wrote: post #14

I always thought shoulder straps need more connection between them at chest level - would that make sense? I think it would even the load better.

Do you mean sternum straps? They do make a big difference (especially when you have two laptops to carry!)

Yes! They also reduce unexpected side-to-side pack movement which helps to avoid losing balance when clambering over rough terrain.

Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#56

Post by andrewljohnson »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

My father had a custom-fitted backpack made back around 1980, which he gave to me, and it's the best backpack I've ever used. It goes against practically everything in the book about modern backpack design. There's about zero customisability, you can adjust the length of the shoulder straps and hip strap and that's about it, but I'm a very similar build to my old man so it fits me almost perfectly. It's an external a…

This seems like a myopic view, like you fell in love with a backpack and built a worldview around it. Modern backpacking gear is extremely light, resilient, and comfortable. You can get packs that ventilate your back. The canvas isn’t really any protection at all from being thrown off a cliff, but a pack filled with soft stuff is. And the external frame is totally unnecessary if your pack weighs 20 total pounds because you have modern gear.

And then mix that in with a jab at disposable culture. You can take good care of a modern pack too, I’ve never had to replace a backpack because it broke.

Sorry to be disagreeable, I just think this comment doesn’t reflect a common reality. I’m no gear head, someone else buys all my gear... but I appreciate modern gear.

Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#57

Post by analog31 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

My father had a custom-fitted backpack made back around 1980, which he gave to me, and it's the best backpack I've ever used. It goes against practically everything in the book about modern backpack design. There's about zero customisability, you can adjust the length of the shoulder straps and hip strap and that's about it, but I'm a very similar build to my old man so it fits me almost perfectly. It's an external a…

I have a couple of 30+ year old backpacks. One thing I like about them is that they don't have thousands of zippers and compartments, so they're quite lightweight despite being made of relatively basic materials. I also have a newer "student" backpack, and it seems like it's full before I even put any stuff in it.

One of these backpacks has been my companion on every plane trip I've ever taken. Unfortunately, I learned the hard way last summer, that it's no longer waterproof at all.

Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#58

Post by superhuzza »

chrisseaton wrote: post #53
superhuzza wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you can, why would you? There's a reason thru-hikers ruthlessly cut back their carrying weight - because you don't actually need that much stuff and it's a literal burden to bear. 75 lbs is almost half my body weight, carrying an extra half-me around is absurd.

> Even if you can, why would you? It's always a trade-off. You can take less equipment with you but be less effective when you get to wherever you're going, or you can take more equipment but have a harder time getting there. You may simply be doing that something that requires 20 kg + of equipment when you get there, so not much much of a choice. Weapon systems, communication systems, climbing gear, oxygen, tools, w…

Okay I think we agree with each other then. I was still considering the context of this particular comment thread, which was just a backcountry hiker who had a 75 lbs pack. Unless he has special gear with him, 75 lbs is crazy.

I regularly hike with climbing gear, which as you point out gets quite heavy. I would very much avoid having that much weight unless it was necessary to climb safely.

Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#59

Post by ColanR »

andrewljohnson wrote: post #56
toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

My father had a custom-fitted backpack made back around 1980, which he gave to me, and it's the best backpack I've ever used. It goes against practically everything in the book about modern backpack design. There's about zero customisability, you can adjust the length of the shoulder straps and hip strap and that's about it, but I'm a very similar build to my old man so it fits me almost perfectly. It's an external a…

This seems like a myopic view, like you fell in love with a backpack and built a worldview around it. Modern backpacking gear is extremely light, resilient, and comfortable. You can get packs that ventilate your back. The canvas isn’t really any protection at all from being thrown off a cliff, but a pack filled with soft stuff is. And the external frame is totally unnecessary if your pack weighs 20 total pounds becau…

Here's the difference I see: the gear the parent is carrying could last year in the wilderness, without reconnecting to civilization. Same goes for the Europeans colonizing the Americas. Your 20lbs of 'high end gear' lasts until it breaks, and then you're back to the store because you can't repair it.

I grew up camping, and I know how awesome the modern tech is. I also know that most people who use it can't go without it.

Can you repair your sleeping bag? When you drop your mosquito cooking stove 'off a cliff' and break the nozzle, can you fix it? Can you and your modern equipment thrive in the woods after your stove's fuel runs out?

Re: Human Interface: Backpack harness innovation

#60

Post by andrewflnr »

richk449 wrote: post #39
hyperpallium wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW TFA doesn't mention the basic idea of backpacks, except by implication: they put the weight on your hips; the shoulders straps are just for alignment.

From the second paragraph: A properly fitting backpack (with hip belt) is one where the mass of the pack is evenly distributed from the C7 cervical vertebra (the bony part at the base of your neck) down to the iliac crest (top of the hips) where the majority of the weight should sit.

To be fair, the "evenly distributed" part of that sentence makes it pretty dang confusing.
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