This is gonna be like Python 3. There is an innumerable amount of “production” VB.
Killing this stuff is not easy, but it has to start at some point. Now let's do Javascript.
Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
51–60 of 292 posts
Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s definitely one of the ugliest languages (syntax wise) that enjoys widespread usage, at least in Microsoft land.
It seems that shell scripting languages tend to be quite ugly out of necessity? I mean bash is not a looker.
It isn't inevitable by any means, fish shell scripting is clean and pleasant.
I use fish as my command line, but I still write scripts in bash, even personal ones I only expect to use on my own machine. Just out of a vague sense that I might reuse it, or it might escape confinement, or something.
Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
#53I first learned how to program in VB4. I can see why as a professional programmer it lost favor, but it was a great learning language.
I first learned it by myself in VB5. I didn't even understand functions, but writing those MessageBoxes with buttons and then having them create even more message boxes was so great! I remember a high school friend bringing me 5 diskettes with VB4 installer because I didn't have it on my home computer. Then next year I enrolled in AP Comp Sci - hardcore turbo c++. Just blew my mind!
> Then next year I enrolled in AP Comp Sci - hardcore turbo c++.
Funny enough, AP Comp Sci went the other direction in the early 2000s, switching from C++ to Java precisely because it was too hardcore for the average high school student.
Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s definitely one of the ugliest languages (syntax wise) that enjoys widespread usage, at least in Microsoft land.
Is it widespread? I've never seen anyone else using powershell 'in the wild', admittedly for the last 3 years I've mainly worked alone, but I still see people using CMD scripts. I usually get frustrated with it and bash out a quick cmdlet instead.
CMD is the worst language I ever saw. It's full of hacks for simplest tasks. The only reason I'm using it is for old systems where PS is not preinstalled.
I used PS to write small scripts and I actually like it. I'm more fluent with bash, but that's only because I used bash a lot. PowerShell feels more robust, no silly space-in-filename problems, no silly parsing of text output to access fields. May be it's ugly for big scripts, I don't know, for me it looked like a vastly superior version of shell.
I would love to learn why people think that power shell is ugly, especially comparing with bash.
Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
The two are completely district languages. Kind of like comparing Java with JavaScript. I'm sure in general Microsoft would love to scrap VB in Excel but there's too many companies that run entire areas of business on it, or the whole business itself. It is the typical legacy/back compat problem. Python or even Powershell would be a vast improvement, but you're going against billions in sunk cost/skills/knowledge. VB…
Would it be impossible for Excel to allow coding in multiple languages? I totally get that there's a huge (disturbing) amount of business critical stuff using the current scripts, but they really should move on to something more modern.
Multiple-language runtimes typically don’t get popular - people just end up choosing one language and standardizing on it. See for example Windtows Scripting Host: you could always use Javascript with it, but almost nobody ever did in practice. After a while, typically the vendor sees other languages as a drag on development, and they get dropped in favour of the main one.
Retrofitting a multiple-language runtime under VBA would likely be a big endeavour, and in the end most people would probably stick to the established language anyway.
Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
The two are completely district languages. Kind of like comparing Java with JavaScript. I'm sure in general Microsoft would love to scrap VB in Excel but there's too many companies that run entire areas of business on it, or the whole business itself. It is the typical legacy/back compat problem. Python or even Powershell would be a vast improvement, but you're going against billions in sunk cost/skills/knowledge. VB…
Would it be impossible for Excel to allow coding in multiple languages? I totally get that there's a huge (disturbing) amount of business critical stuff using the current scripts, but they really should move on to something more modern.
That’s a thing now, but for add-ins: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/office/dev/add-ins/referenc...
Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
#57I first learned how to program in VB4. I can see why as a professional programmer it lost favor, but it was a great learning language.
> great learning language
E.W.Dijkstra would disagree: "It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."
Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it widespread? I've never seen anyone else using powershell 'in the wild', admittedly for the last 3 years I've mainly worked alone, but I still see people using CMD scripts. I usually get frustrated with it and bash out a quick cmdlet instead.
CMD is the worst language I ever saw. It's full of hacks for simplest tasks. The only reason I'm using it is for old systems where PS is not preinstalled. I used PS to write small scripts and I actually like it. I'm more fluent with bash, but that's only because I used bash a lot. PowerShell feels more robust, no silly space-in-filename problems, no silly parsing of text output to access fields. May be it's ugly for…
"I would love to learn why people think that power shell is ugly, especially comparing with bash.
"
I don't think people compare it with bash, but with more modern languages.
Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
#59I evaluated Visual Basic as an alternative to Borland C++ to develop Windows programs. It was just not there. Borland C++ allowed easy GUI design and was easy integrated with Windows APIs for any low-level needs. Several years later the jump in quality was astonishing. Good ODBC drivers and easy linking between database rows and your UI make it a fast development tool that fit many needs. I do not miss the big colore…
I took a VB course in college and was immediately hooked. Then I immediately switched to Borland. There is something about being able to compile a runtime-free, native binary.
Yeah, for many programmers writing code in an unmanaged language would be like a breath of fresh air these days.
Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic
#60I loved VB. I don't think I've ever been as productive as I was in VB - I could literally knock together a complete desktop application in an afternoon.
It wasn't perfect. There were lots of problems with it. It would never win prizes in CS competitions. But man you could build shit with it fast.