Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#41

Post by Exmoor » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:34 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #24

Vaslo wrote: post #16

Wonder what is going to happen to Visual Basic for Applications? I hope it pushes Microsoft to move toward a new language like Python to automate Excel.

The two are completely district languages. Kind of like comparing Java with JavaScript. I'm sure in general Microsoft would love to scrap VB in Excel but there's too many companies that run entire areas of business on it, or the whole business itself. It is the typical legacy/back compat problem. Python or even Powershell would be a vast improvement, but you're going against billions in sunk cost/skills/knowledge. VB…

Would it be impossible for Excel to allow coding in multiple languages? I totally get that there's a huge (disturbing) amount of business critical stuff using the current scripts, but they really should move on to something more modern.

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#42

Post by toyg » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:35 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #33

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s definitely one of the ugliest languages (syntax wise) that enjoys widespread usage, at least in Microsoft land.

Is it widespread? I've never seen anyone else using powershell 'in the wild', admittedly for the last 3 years I've mainly worked alone, but I still see people using CMD scripts. I usually get frustrated with it and bash out a quick cmdlet instead.

sysadmins who are fully invested in the MS ecosystem do use it a lot. People doing cross-platform work, don’t.

In terms of wider adoption, it suffered by maturing at a time when a lot of people had moved on to more powerful devop solutions. And of course, being MS tech (although technically it was acquired), it carries a stigma.

I just found it un-intuitive, ugly, and verbose. Compared to my beloved python it looks really really bad.

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#43

Post by ripley12 » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:35 PM UTC

My first real job was on a .NET stack that was 1/2 VB.NET and 1/2 C# for legacy reasons. It was weird at first, but I mostly stopped noticing after a few months - the two were completely interoperable and they both compile down to the same .NET IL. In practice, coding in VB.NET was 99% the same as coding in C#, just with a slightly more verbose syntax. Not my favourite language, but much better than its dismal reputation would imply.

I sometimes miss VB.NET's XML Literals/Embedded Expressions feature. Back when virtually everything spoke XML, it was very nice to have first-class support for XML as a language feature. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/visual-basic/program...

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#44

Post by Ididntdothis » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:35 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #36

worldsayshi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that shell scripting languages tend to be quite ugly out of necessity? I mean bash is not a looker.

They had an opportunity to make a whole new, good, scripting language. And blew it spectacularly.

The decision to make the console output as the return value of a function alone almost destroys it for larger scripting projects. It’s a really bad decision and they could still fix it by adding some environment variable that disables this “feature” while staying compatible with old scripts.

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#45

Post by jeremyjh » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:36 PM UTC

formercoder wrote: post #25

This is gonna be like Python 3. There is an innumerable amount of “production” VB.

Is there really a lot of production VB.NET? I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn there is more production VB 6 code and development on that stopped two decades ago.

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#46

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:36 PM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #21

kjaftaedi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this too, but everything you can do in VB6 you can do in powershell, and do it better. Try/Catch, windows forms.. literally anything you can think of. You can even mix powershell and C# together in the same script. Once I realized I had a better version of everything I wanted, it became my new favorite.

> You can even mix powershell and C# together in the same script. What feature are you referring to?

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#47

Post by toyg » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:38 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #4

The end of Visual Basic.NET, that is. "Classic" Visual Basic has been ended for a long time now. (And VB.NET is much less of a loss -- it was never as popular as classic VB. Even when it first came out, it was clear that if you were a VB developer, Microsoft really wanted you to move to C#; VB.NET always felt like an afterthought, a fig leaf they could use to say they really weren't abandoning VB when they obviously…

Exactly. The writing was on the wall all the way back in 2001. It’s basically been a 20-year-long transition, and one has to admire Microsoft’s dedication to their developer userbase in that area.

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#48

Post by tomaszs » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:40 PM UTC

Visual Basic was one of first languages i have learned. A lots of its spirit was moved into C#. Maybe its good, but on the other hand we loose a good one leaving more Space for JS and the creature called TS.

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#49

Post by toyg » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:40 PM UTC

tapland wrote: post #3

azhenley wrote: post #2

I started programming in VB6 so this is a little sad, but I'm actually surprised it has made it this far. I see C# everywhere but can't remember the last time someone told me they were using VB.

Go make some nice word macros in VBA =)

VINV — VBA Is Not VB ;)

Re: Microsoft plots the end of Visual Basic

#50

Post by papito » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:42 PM UTC

Hokusai wrote: post #13

I evaluated Visual Basic as an alternative to Borland C++ to develop Windows programs. It was just not there. Borland C++ allowed easy GUI design and was easy integrated with Windows APIs for any low-level needs. Several years later the jump in quality was astonishing. Good ODBC drivers and easy linking between database rows and your UI make it a fast development tool that fit many needs. I do not miss the big colore…

I took a VB course in college and was immediately hooked. Then I immediately switched to Borland. There is something about being able to compile a runtime-free, native binary.