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Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

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Re: Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

#41
post #26
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't sound like him :) Do you have a reference/quote for that, out of interest? In the past it seems like he's been skeptical[0] of providing user data to third-party services. [0] - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.com...

This was from a private email exchange, but you can look at how he's soliciting a FOSS Google Docs client as evidence that he'd be fine with a FOSS interface to a proprietary service. Additionally, https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html makes no mention of proprietary backends being harmful to user freedom, only obfuscated (unauditable) frontend code.

> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html makes no mention of proprietary backends being harmful to user freedom

OK, but the later essay https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s... does.

The proprietary backend is providing a network service, the question is: to what degree is that service being used as a software substitute?

----

My own opinions on RMS' opinions:

The essay I linked is from 2010; don't get too hung up on specific examples, things have changed since then. The Facebook of 2010 was fairly usable as a dumb service without being a software substitute. It was possible to consume your news feed via RSS, and perform your own sorting of it (for example).

That said, I do think that RMS has taken a rather naive view of which services are pure services, and which services are software substitutes. I can see how many things can reasonably be conceptualized as a pure service... but also, they could be replaced by software. If you could use software as a service substitute, then surely the service is a software substitute. And part of this changes over time, as people figure out how to replace more things with software. (Based on personal (mailing list?) communication regarding DDG vs YaCy vs Searx as the default search engines in FSF-endorsed distros)

It should also be said that RMS refines his views change over time, and that he often doesn't do a good job of acknowledging that they've changed, instead doing a sort of "I've always had this wisdom" thing. Years ago, he had a bit about how people would ask him about "free hardware", and that his answer was that the concept of free hardware didn't make much sense, as you can't copy a piece of hardware the way that you can a piece of software, and that having the source files for hardware wasn't very important. Then a few years later, consumer 3D printing and home manufacturing started to take off, but he held on to his old position. Then a few years later, he came around, and he had a bit in a talk at LibrePlanet about how free hardware was obviously important. So don't give old statements by him too much weight--his views change in response to new information and developments (as they should).

Re: Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

#42
Open source client for a closed source backend.

Businesses aren't charities but man does this feel cynical to anyone else? Twilio is not a bad investment for any business, in my opinon -- they make very complicated things very simple and offer a lot of value. This feels like OSS-washing though, and I feel like I'm a mark -- "use our awesome open source stuff so we can pull you into our ecosystem".

Re: Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't aware of Jitsi - I really like Twilio but Jitsi's ability to self host elevates it to another level.

Also BigBlueButton, which is geared towards education, but also does video conferencing well. https://bigbluebutton.org/

Thank you for sharing this. I had never heard of this project before -- and it looks pretty good!

Re: Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

#44
Don't really like the misleading projects Twilio releases as "open source". They are basically releasing demo code of how to use their commercial, paid for backend service and while that demo code is open-source, I don't think that's what people are thinking of when they read that title. I think most people think they are releasing some kind of self-hosted solution. At least that's what I think when I read this.

With that said, Twilio has a very easy to use API and if usage cost isn't as big of a deal to you as development time is, it's an easy decision to utilize what they offer.

Re: Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

#45
post #13

These are open source clients for a proprietary backend, which are no doubt still useful in a number of circumstances. If you are comfortable with a more proprietary stack, then Google Hangouts / Zoom / others are likely to provide a better supported user experience. If you would prefer a more libre end-to-end experience then Jitsi Meet may be an attractive alternative.

Zoom is owned indirectly by the Chinese government, not sure what that means to your company but FYI.

They’re a public company as of March 2019, so unless the Chinese government is somehow a majority shareholder, I believe you’re mistaken.

Re: Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

#46

Open source client for a closed source backend. Businesses aren't charities but man does this feel cynical to anyone else? Twilio is not a bad investment for any business, in my opinon -- they make very complicated things very simple and offer a lot of value. This feels like OSS-washing though, and I feel like I'm a mark -- "use our awesome open source stuff so we can pull you into our ecosystem".

The advantage of the open source here is so you can configure the endpoints exactly as you wish. Not vendor independence etc.

Re: Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

#47
post #11

Meh. With Jitsi I can self-host. In my view, that makes Jitsi better from a privacy perspective.

I tried Jitsi and I love the UI but it uses so much CPU... Still looking for a self-hosted alternative.

if I may ask, what did you not like about Jitsi? the backend server /videobridge is pretty cool. When you say ui cpu usaage, do you mean the browser /javascript UI ?

Re: Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

#49
post #37

Disclaimer: I used to work at Twilio I'm seeing discussion below about fully open-source solutions (Jitsi Meet) vs. fully proprietary solutions (Zoom). What's interesting about using Twilio is that it is a programmable solution. Case in point: I am building a webpage where people can log-in to a virtual office, so that people working from home don't feel so lonely. I have certain requirements, such as: - All audio is…

Also Tokbox is horrible. Twilio is modern and pretty good.

Re: Twilio releases open source video conferencing apps for iOS, Android and web

#50
post #39
post #37

Disclaimer: I used to work at Twilio I'm seeing discussion below about fully open-source solutions (Jitsi Meet) vs. fully proprietary solutions (Zoom). What's interesting about using Twilio is that it is a programmable solution. Case in point: I am building a webpage where people can log-in to a virtual office, so that people working from home don't feel so lonely. I have certain requirements, such as: - All audio is…

So Twilio's SDK counts, but Jitsi's doesn't because ...? You can build custom interfaces with all your requested features with that too.

The difference in the ability of a developer to modify an open source software product (think: Gimp or Jitsi Meet) to suit their needs versus using a platform SDK that is designed to provide flexibility and to be used by devs is massive.

I spent some time looking at the Jitsi Meet source to confirm this assertion:

https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/

It was quite clear that trying to use that code to execute my use case above would have been a very large waste of time, and quite possibly (given the lack of docs) a futile exercise.

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