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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#51

Post by JoshTriplett »

avianlyric wrote: post #41
JoshTriplett wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea is not that you should be able to swap your battery as easy as you can with an Nokia 3310 but that you or a competent person could swap the battery with tools made for that purpose. On many modern devices, you don't have "a battery", you have battery cells fit into every available space and wired together. You're certainly welcome to try replacing those. I just don't want to see that reverted to a discrete…

> On many modern devices, you don't have "a battery", you have battery cells fit into every available space and wired together. You're certainly welcome to try replacing those. I just don't want to see that reverted to a discrete battery design. Source for this. No device has unpackaged unprotected battery cells just floating around. They may have many discrete batteries to use up all of the available space, but each…

I didn't say "unpackaged" or "unprotected". But I've seen the internals of multiple devices that have simple plastic wrappers (not hard shells) around the various battery cells, with wires connecting those plastic wrappers, and they don't have duplicated battery electronics, just one set.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#52

Post by lm28469 »

listsfrin wrote: post #36

The article says this is needed in order to reduce greenhouse emissions. I don't feel that's true. In my country in Europe nothing is done to reduce pollution from the cars and plastic usage. Year after year more products are built with plastic instead of glass or metal.

So the logic is that we shouldn't do anything because nothing has been done yet ?

Europe probably has the strictest car emissions laws (so strict manufacturers have to cheat to comply with it), and many of its country banned single use plastic bags, straws, &c.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#53

Post by listsfrin »

lm28469 wrote: post #52
listsfrin wrote: post #36

The article says this is needed in order to reduce greenhouse emissions. I don't feel that's true. In my country in Europe nothing is done to reduce pollution from the cars and plastic usage. Year after year more products are built with plastic instead of glass or metal.

So the logic is that we shouldn't do anything because nothing has been done yet ? Europe probably has the strictest car emissions laws (so strict manufacturers have to cheat to comply with it), and many of its country banned single use plastic bags, straws, &c.

Maybe on paper they do. In reality you pay 20 Euro as bribe and you can get away with anything.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#54

Post by geolgau »

listsfrin wrote: post #48
jotm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? I mean, European directives are not always implemented perfectly, but all countries do try to. It may be that your country is doing something, it's just not noticeable, yet. This is long term stuff, results are only apparent years or decades after the laws come into effect.

I live in my country and I know some things about it. Germany allows people to sell old cars in Eastern Europe. My country will take those cars without any limits. This is the Europe that I'm living in. Crossing the street in the morning is an exercise of how long can you hold your breath.

Romania or Bulgaria?

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#55

Post by simion314 »

listsfrin wrote: post #50
simion314 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am thinking that extracting metals from mines is also polluting, the big issue with plastic is the fact is contaminating waters, for CO2 emissions the major problem is the burning of oil/petrol and I think construction(creating cement creates a lot of CO2). About glass, some people say that sicne glass is heavy you will use more fuel to move it around(I have no idea if this is true).

Then maybe they should strive to recycle instead to repair.

It depends, most of the time the issue is a small component from a big system failing. This large companies should not block a competent repairman to diagnose and replace the broken part. I am not asking companies to make Lego phones just don't block people with DRM,copyright and supply chain restrictions.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#56

Post by TeMPOraL »

listsfrin wrote: post #48
jotm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? I mean, European directives are not always implemented perfectly, but all countries do try to. It may be that your country is doing something, it's just not noticeable, yet. This is long term stuff, results are only apparent years or decades after the laws come into effect.

I live in my country and I know some things about it. Germany allows people to sell old cars in Eastern Europe. My country will take those cars without any limits. This is the Europe that I'm living in. Crossing the street in the morning is an exercise of how long can you hold your breath.

My country also buys used cars off Germany, because people here kind of can't afford brand new ones.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#57

Post by mc32 »

liopleurodon wrote: post #45
lnsru wrote: post #37

That will end in another monstrosity like WEEE making entry for hardware startups harder and harder: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electro... Only big players with dedicated departments will comply easily. And about right to repair I have bad experience: broken cable is enough for lots of buyers to throw away electronic appliances. Let’s be honest: majority of users will cause more harm than do…

I'd like to be able to swap the battery on my smartphone, like I used to be able to do. Same with my laptop

I think the whole thing should be thought of as built-to-be-repaired, rather than right-to-repair.

Build with simple easy to replace common components. No black boxes. Obviously some products fit this more nicely than others. Simple devices like washing machines vs smartphones.

Washing machines and other products that have been smartened should have mechanical mode fall-backs so that cheap electronic controllers susceptible to failure which may cease production, don’t doom the usefulness of a product.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#58

Post by adrianN »

listsfrin wrote: post #50
simion314 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am thinking that extracting metals from mines is also polluting, the big issue with plastic is the fact is contaminating waters, for CO2 emissions the major problem is the burning of oil/petrol and I think construction(creating cement creates a lot of CO2). About glass, some people say that sicne glass is heavy you will use more fuel to move it around(I have no idea if this is true).

Then maybe they should strive to recycle instead to repair.

They already do: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electro...

It's always better to avoid throwing something away by repairing it that trying to recycle it.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#59

Post by lm28469 »

TomMarius wrote: post #5
simion314 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I want to buy a car that has no lights,breaks and pollutes 100x more then the norms? There are many hardened phones that are repairable. Edit: also a main issue with repairability is DRM and evil companies trying to use the copyright law so you won't publish repair manuals and schematics. Your ceramic phone won't suffer if someone shares a manual about it's internals .

I was not talking about hardened phones, quite the opposite, a pure design item, so small and precise that any breakage of the shell could destroy it - that's the current direction of the market, which I like very much. Who exactly will I hurt with my phone, and when exactly is it going to gain around 1 metric ton and be hurtling down a highway? Since when is it fashionable to justify regulation with completely unrel…

> a pure design item, so small and precise that any breakage of the shell could destroy it

We have to come to term with the fact that owning such devices isn't good for humanity in the long term.

> Who exactly will I hurt with my phone

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/burning-truth-...

https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/27/europe-s-electronic-wast...

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#60

Post by yohannparis »

lnsru wrote: post #37

That will end in another monstrosity like WEEE making entry for hardware startups harder and harder: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electro... Only big players with dedicated departments will comply easily. And about right to repair I have bad experience: broken cable is enough for lots of buyers to throw away electronic appliances. Let’s be honest: majority of users will cause more harm than do…

If you read more into the law, they want to have parts and documentation available to professionals mostly. The consumer might still get them, but the goal is not to be user-friendly. Like with your car, sure I can change my fuel pump, but most people will go their mechanic, and their mechanic can buy parts from the manufacturer. The law is promoting this kind of service.

Right now if your TV has a broken part, it might be impossible to fix, even with a pro. Maybe a really good one might change some electronics, but not an OEM part swap.

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