Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

courtlistener.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 362 posts

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#271

Post by yipbub »

baryphonic wrote: post #257
mantap wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two schools of thought to civil disobedience. The first holds that one must surrender oneself to the authorities to distinguish civil disobedience from pure criminality. But the other holds that one should not surrender or plead guilty so as not to legitimize an unjust system.

Though I clearly am biased in favor of the former interpretation since it is IMO the most persuasive, her actions fail both. Any advocacy on her own behalf in front of the court (with the exception of genuinely extreme treatment like torture) would constitute legitimizing the proceedings. Under the latter interpretation, her only response would be to remain completely silent and refuse to cooperate at all. If we want…

That does not follow. Court pleadings only imply she recognises the power over the court over her.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#272

Post by dang »

an-allen wrote: post #101

Did they just charge her a quarter of a million dollars for refusing to speak. What a crock of thuggy shit justice department.

Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments, and in particular not name-calling fulmination, to Hacker News. We're trying for something different than that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The fines against Manning have been commented on repeatedly and extensively in this very thread. The only thing your comment adds is rage, which we have already have a surplus of, even if it's all justified.

The wretched flamewar your comment set off was predictable and a perfect example of what this site is not supposed to be for. No more of this, please, regardless of how you feel about justice departments.

All: upvoting this kind of comment—the kind that obviously and egregiously flouts the site rules—is the kind of thing that eventually gets your votes dropped on Hacker News.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#273

Post by dang »

westmeal wrote: post #116
an-allen wrote: post #101

Did they just charge her a quarter of a million dollars for refusing to speak. What a crock of thuggy shit justice department.

Land of the free, home of the brave.

Please don't post unsubstantive comments here. You took what was already a wretched flamewar and squared it. Seriously not cool.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#274

Post by dang »

lostgame wrote: post #161
westmeal wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land of the free, home of the brave.

Especially given its current leadership, I often turn away jobs of more than two times my salary - in USD (I live in Canada) - to avoid living in America. That Trump ever got elected - or was ever seriously considered as a candidate - tells me that enough of the the population is seriously disturbed that I’d like nothing to do with it. And then there’s the war atrocities...

Please don't take HN threads further into political or nationalistic flamewars. They are predictable, tedious, and destructive of the curiosity we want here. The one you've fed in this case is particularly bad and particularly dumb, and to the extent that such crap shows up here, we might as well shut this place down.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: we've had to ask you this three times already. Not cool, so please stop.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#275

Post by dang »

lonelappde wrote: post #208
lostgame wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially given its current leadership, I often turn away jobs of more than two times my salary - in USD (I live in Canada) - to avoid living in America. That Trump ever got elected - or was ever seriously considered as a candidate - tells me that enough of the the population is seriously disturbed that I’d like nothing to do with it. And then there’s the war atrocities...

Canada is like the US but lite. Ontario's government just replac car license number plates with blocks of color of the party in power, led by the brother of the former Toronto mayor who smoked crack with gang members, on video, while he was mayor. https://www.google.com/amp/s/torontosun.com/news/provincial/...

Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. It's tedious, predictable, dumb, and destructive of what this site exists for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#276

Post by dang »

pentae wrote: post #169
lostgame wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially given its current leadership, I often turn away jobs of more than two times my salary - in USD (I live in Canada) - to avoid living in America. That Trump ever got elected - or was ever seriously considered as a candidate - tells me that enough of the the population is seriously disturbed that I’d like nothing to do with it. And then there’s the war atrocities...

This says more about you than 'enough of the population being seriously disturbed'

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how provocative another comment is or you feel it is. It helps nothing, only makes this place even worse, and is what the guidelines explicitly ask you not to do.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#277

Post by dang »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #227
lonelappde wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is like the US but lite. Ontario's government just replac car license number plates with blocks of color of the party in power, led by the brother of the former Toronto mayor who smoked crack with gang members, on video, while he was mayor. https://www.google.com/amp/s/torontosun.com/news/provincial/...

Canada is like the US because most of the media consumed by its population is US content. Canada is like the US because the Canadian enconomy is so intertwined with the US when the Dow Jones drops 10% in a day Canadians hurt too. Canada is like the US because Wuhan Fever is killing their citizens too. Canada is different from the US because if one of their citizens gets sick regardless of having insurance they will g…

Nationalistic flamebait is not welcome on this site. Please don't post like this here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#278

Post by dependenttypes »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #245
dependenttypes wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if Assange was a Russian agent he still did nothing wrong regarding his actions of helping whistle-blowers publish their data.

He's charged with conspiracy for conspiring to commit a crime. That's illegal.

This is irrelevant to what I am saying. I am not talking about whether what he did was illegal, I am just saying that he did nothing wrong. After all there is nothing wrong with a lot of things that are or were illegal.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#280

Post by colechristensen »

jacobolus wrote: post #142
cfv wrote: post #120

What's the legal reasoning (if there's any) to keep her locked up and ruin her financially while not being able to swing the same punishment at all those people who refused to testify in the recent impeachment?

The reasoning is that the DOJ under Barr (and the administration in general) has no interest in cooperating with Congress or fulfilling their constitutional/legal obligations. If the Congress really wants it can enforce its own subpoenas by putting anyone who refuses to testify in their own jail, without asking the DOJ for help. This is a power that hasn’t been used since 1934, and the current Congress has opted to w…

I think they also rightly recognize that Congress exercising its extremely rarely used right to use force could be the first step into either civil conflict (escalating to war) between the Executive branch and Congress or the further neutralizing of congress leading to one-man-rule of President as Emperor.

There are many who hear me talk about such things and think I'm absolutely crazy, but I think people have such faith that things will always end up fine (because America has been stable for so long) that they will ignore every sign until it is all but complete. History may see this week as one of a select number or crises that lead to ... something.

I fully believe that Barr actually in his heart and mind wants and is acting to further it. Trump as well. The cowardice of the House and the politeness of the Senate are just as culpable.

The Democrats meanwhile now have a choice between an out of touch old man who was the conservative VP to make Obama a little more palatable and a near communist who promotes himself with plans which don't represent the interests, philosophies, or desires of a large majority of America and could never, ever pass into law.

If we are lucky, the current pandemic will infect the three of them before the election. If we are unlucky, I believe we are very close the American Republic on the path to fall within 40 years into... something.

Post reply on HN