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IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

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Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too be fair, the EU also never managed to build a large scale software industry. I’m not saying this is only because of patents, but it’s not a great example to uphold.

Someone should tell Spotify, SAP, Sage, Nokia, and ARM they're not large scale.

Compare that to just Bay Area alone or one Alibaba and then tell me about large scale...

Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#212
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with this. In administrative law (the principles of which apply here) certain words have technical interpretations that are very different from the colloquial meaning. "Shall" is one of those words - and I too would interpret this as an obligation.

But it doesn't say that "Congress shall promote the progress..." it says "Congress shall have the power to promote the progress..." If the framers wanted to require that Congress do this stuff, why insert "have the power to" unnecessarily? There's no need for that phrase. As another point against this being an obligation, if you look at the list of enumerated powers[0], you'll see some that are clearly not obligation…

Don't forget "To declare War" -- seems pretty unreasonable to read that as an intention to prohibit peace.

Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#213
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it suits them. I think the bigger reason is that in many civil cases (not just IP) it ultimately comes down to who is willing to pay more for lawyers and legal fees.

As a litigator I do not think that is true. Facts, more than anything, dictate outcomes, generally. Though I will say that patent cases are prohibitively expensive. Though, contrary to what I would think many here assume, leaves the inventor with the short end of the stick as opposed to large IP-owning organizations like Google (that simultaneously advocate for lesser patent-rights).

> As a litigator I do not think that is true. Facts, more than anything, dictate outcomes, generally. Though I will say that patent cases are prohibitively expensive. Though, contrary to what I would think many here assume, leaves the inventor with the short end of the stick as opposed to large IP-owning organizations like Google (that simultaneously advocate for lesser patent-rights).

The problem is that patent cases are intrinsically prohibitively expensive. It's the nature of them, not a result of some recent regulatory change advocated by Google. Especially when there are companies that hold many thousands of patents, any of which can be claimed in combination and cause the defense to incur significant costs even if the claims or their applicability ultimately turn out to be bunk. And you're bankrupt before you can prove it.

The result is that large companies can destroy small practicing inventors with legal fees at will, which is naturally what they do if the small practicing inventor attempts to assert their patent.

To avoid this is to not practice your own invention so you can't yourself be sued for infringement. Which implies that the patent system is only useful to trolls and large incumbents and is actively harmful to small practicing inventors, who can't usefully assert their own patents against the incumbents but can have the large incumbents assert their patents against the small inventor.

Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#214
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are startups in this space, but there are also people who value the friction (and not all for selfish reasons).

> (and not all for selfish reasons) Can you elaborate?

Having physical interaction and time needed makes it harder to file nuisance suits, etc.

Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#215
post #174
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but, it is my understanding Amazon Web Services is their biggest money maker, that's where I think that claim comes from.

'Market cap' is not the best choice of metrics here, it's really a measure of investor surpluses, ignore the rest of the equation. Wallmart, Exxon, Amazon retail revenues completely dwarf the 'tech sector' - it's just that their margins are more narrow, in most cases, surpluses to consumers are vast. Honestly 'profit to investors' should be one of the last metrics most of us care about. Most individuals should be far…

> The only 'tech' companies on there are Apple and Amazon.

And Samsung, Foxconn, and Alphabet. So 10% of the list.

Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#216
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Market cap' is not the best choice of metrics here, it's really a measure of investor surpluses, ignore the rest of the equation. Wallmart, Exxon, Amazon retail revenues completely dwarf the 'tech sector' - it's just that their margins are more narrow, in most cases, surpluses to consumers are vast. Honestly 'profit to investors' should be one of the last metrics most of us care about. Most individuals should be far…

I'm curious why you think revenue matters more than profits. Take two hypothetical companies, say ebay` and amazon`. They both provide a marketplace, but slightly differently. ebay` allows manufacturers to list directly on their market for a fee. Amazon` buys from manufacturers and sells on their market for a markup equivalent to ebay's fee. Are these two companies substantially different? I don't think so but the re…

Revenue will give an indication of the size of the business activity. Valuation is just a measure of profits, which can vary a lot.

From an economic standpoint, what matters more will be revenue, it's a better indication of how meaningful what is done impacts the world.

As for Ebay vs. Amazon - for 3rd party listings, it doesn't matter that much, it's all accounting, but when Amazon actually does buy and sell stuff, it's very material because of a) cash flows: they send off cash (or get huge credit) to buy stuff b) they have inventory, warehouses, workers c) they are the merchant of record and take on chargeback risk, returns etc.. At the scale that is meaningful.

But I don't think that this comparison really highlights the difference between 'high margin' and 'high revenue' so much as for example AirBnB vs. Toyota. Even though Toyota is not worth that much more than AirBnB, it's considerably important to the economy whereas AirBnB is almost irrelevant.

Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws pushed by large companies so that others can't compete against them and they are able to price gouge the customer. There is a large supply of housing that is available to customers that want to purchase it. The idea that two people can't make a consensual exchange of value is antithetical to a free society.

No one's saying that two people can't make a "consensual exchange of value" of legal actions . I can't make a "consensual exchange of value" by paying a mob hitman to kill someone that I don't like. This is a good thing, and this is not antithetical to a free society.

Did you just compare listing illegal rental on some website to murder?

Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#218
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws pushed by large companies so that others can't compete against them and they are able to price gouge the customer. There is a large supply of housing that is available to customers that want to purchase it. The idea that two people can't make a consensual exchange of value is antithetical to a free society.

Laws are laws, your insinuation of general corruption isn't really fair, the onus would be on you to prove that. Both Uber and AirBnB knowingly break the law as part of their business model. Zoning doesn't allow the kind of business that AirBnB has, they just don't care. One could very well argue that maybe the laws need reform (as I do) but that's another story; the inherent ethos of YC et. al. is to err on the side…

Shitty rules that don't serve people need to be broken. I want to see my property value go up, not down so some hipster developer can afford it.

Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#219
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former employee, I don't agree with that. I know it's the prevailing sentiment on HN, but it's not the truth.

I think the opinion is that they exploit lack of laws in this area. Their business model is built to let people run essentially unlicensed hotels and rentals without those pesky restriction. They could easily prevent this but they have no interest in that. It is growth at all costs; who cares if "regular" people can't find apartments because people are buying them up as AirBNB properties. The regulations will eventua…

>who cares if "regular" people can't find apartments

This is BS. Those "regular" people just want rental market to collapse so they can live in center of the city for pennies.

It's nobody's business if someone rents apartment. If you can't afford it - you can't afford it.

Re: IBM sues Airbnb for patent royalties

#220
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former employee, I don't agree with that. I know it's the prevailing sentiment on HN, but it's not the truth.

It’s a statement of fact. My town prohibits leases under a week but that hasn’t stopped AirBnb from accepting listings there.

So?
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