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Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

reuters.com

241–250 of 410 posts

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#241

Is there any map of the spread within Italy (or any other country) region wise, so that one could see how effected different regions are, and how region wise quarantined have worked.

I'm italian. Here is the most recent table https://www.open.online/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Dati-prot...

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These are the aspects of life most likely to change after this is all over. People will forget about this in a year and go back to life like it's always been. Short term convenience trumps everything except short term negative consequences.

No. I remember 9/11, and this feels worse. The world won’t be the same for a decade. Are you too young to remember when you could just walk straight onto a plane without being searched? Those days never came back.

I think more of the 2004 tsunami.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These are the aspects of life most likely to change after this is all over. People will forget about this in a year and go back to life like it's always been. Short term convenience trumps everything except short term negative consequences.

No. I remember 9/11, and this feels worse. The world won’t be the same for a decade. Are you too young to remember when you could just walk straight onto a plane without being searched? Those days never came back.

America is still not the same. I'm not talking about airport security, although that's a minor, minor difference. I'm talking about the government, the society, the culture. The terrorists won on 9/11 and they've been winning every day since. America is not a free country, if it ever was. The surveillance state has been ramped up. The police state has been ramped up. Wars have been ramped up. We started a war with a completely unrelated country and killed millions. Life for most citizens is absolute shit, barely making it by.

9/11 was not just a battle. It started a war the terrorists have been winning ever since. That's probably why there haven't really been any major attacks since then. Why try to attack America when us idiot Americans are attacking each other and bringing down the empire ourselves? The terrorists are just watching with glee.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#244

What's interesting is, many South Koreans still believe the South Korean government is to blame. Perhaps no people are satisifed by their government? Usual counterarguments are like these: 1. The government should have prevented the entry of foreign nationals who recently visited China. It could buy us some time to develop treatment to the disease. To this day, no such ban has been imposed. 2. It should have prohibit…

Counterargument #1, #2 is due to the government's stance towards China. The government is trying to win back China's (so called) friendship, which was shattered when the U.S. deployed THAAD there.

South Korea was able to handle this not because the government did good, but they experienced the MERS outbreak in 2015. Legislative measures to prevent outbreaks were made then. (plus the lesson of impeachment I guess)

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#245
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anybody have opinions on outdoor activities in small groups? Supposing we've come to the point where we're otherwise staying at home where possible. It could get psychologically daunting, especially for those of us who live alone. (Video conferencing could help as well). I thought some outdoor games with people in real life, maybe 10-15 people, staying a meter away from each other, etc. Is that small risk, minis…

At my jiu jitsu club, we're moving into no-contact grappling. This will keep us safe from the virus yet give those in quarantine some much-needed mental relief. See e.g. https://streamable.com/loz3v . Don't do that outdoors though, unless you can find ways to avoid the injuries from no-contact grappling on hard surfaces.

That might be safer than full contact, but hardly seems safe. Well within cough/sneeze range.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#246
post #101
post #40

S.Korea is also effectively an island - water 3 sides + sealed N.Korea border. I don't think it's useful comparing large interconnected EU countries response capabilities against Asian Tigers islands (Korea, Singapore, Taiwan) with deep collectivist cultural roots and large demographics that still remember living under centralized authoritarian rule. In the case of Singapore and China, still are. Italy has too much t…

> [...] deep collectivist cultural roots and large demographics that still remember living under centralized authoritarian rule. In the case of Singapore and China, still are. From Singapore's Wikipedia page: > Freedom House ranks Singapore as "partly free" in its Freedom in the World report,[137] and The Economist Intelligence Unit ranks Singapore as a "flawed democracy", the second best rank of four, in its "Democr…

It's a valid comparison in the sense that both Singapore and Chinese governance structure allows extremely despotic interventions that other representative forms of governments cannot. The broad point that the countries that responded effectively so far either have the benefit of authoritarian mobilization capabilities or still have vast populations that experienced living under the shadow of authoritarian regimes. I don't think we'll see similar levels of compliance in the west, on top of actually having very difficult borders to police.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large number of South Korea infections are even younger due to how it spread. Another possibility is that Italy doesn't have a handle on who is or isn't infected so what they report are the obvious infections, who tend to be older.

In many (technically former) "red zones", especially in Lombardy, they tested also asyntomatic family members of infected people, or their contacts. I'm not sure how inaccurate it is, but I have no idea what has been done in SK.

South Korea traces the movement of everyone who tests positive, puts the movements online and tests those who were exposed to someone positive (this is in the article I believe). It's a massive effort but with the world economy at a stand-still, what else do people have to do?

North Italy has a population of 27 people btw so the 10K that are registered as positive as a drop in the bucket.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#248

Is there a site that comments on general news, has an educated audience and debunks spurious or dubious claims? I’d like to read my news through such portal. GN or WN (General, World) vs HN

The reason HN works (well one reason) is vigorous moderation and a stamping out of any mode of discourse apart from collegial intellectual discussion. As a result, we don't see memes or most of the other cheap humour you will find on e.g Reddit. It also seems to lead inevitably to people whining about downvotes, and to people whining about people whining about downvotes.

HN is basically ideal for analytical, logic bound folks, and it works because the topics tends to be things that we can reason about and evaluate using logic.

HN would not work if the topics were more general. Anything political for example seems to hardly lend itself to logical discussion. It's impossible to imagine a @dang enforcing civilised discourse on political discussions.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#249
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore is probably doing as best as any country could hope to. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/12/8145224... Also, as an American, I'm embarrassed by my country's response and by how my president addresses the nation. PM Lee shows how you talk to your country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mYs1Uyx3c8 His original address five weeks prior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dExr76Wckr8

Singapore has been competent, but Taiwan's response has been more impressive. It's very close to the hot zone, millions of people travel to and from mainland China every year, it has roughly the population of Australia living on 10% of the land Japan has, the WHO refuses any cooperation, and yet there have been under 50 cases and no local transmission. Not only that, but as a democratic state, Taiwan's control measur…

China reported Covid19 to WHO on 31 Dec 2019, do you say that travel curbs were put in Taiwan in early December?

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#250
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Just 2 days ago I was talking to someone who was annoyed by people taking measures: "See, in China they're already seeing infections going down! No point in taking all these measures!" Without apparently realizing the reason why they're going down is extreme is precisely those extreme measures.

There’s not much evidence that the extreme “lockdown” decisions made by China had a significant impact on the outcome either way. Social distancing, contact tracing and isolation of the sick work well, and that was almost certainly the critical portion of the response. For example, this paper makes a solid argument that the travel ban delayed the epidemic across china by only a few days: https://science.sciencemag.or…

The big issue we have seen with contact tracing in this pandemic is that it doesn't catch everyone. Those contacts you didn't find start new chains that you need to find and disrupt, but doing that requires more tests than are available: People who haven't been traveling are simply denied tests. So you never find those chains, and you get out of control community spread.
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