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Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

reuters.com

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Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#191

Post by hcknwscommenter »

tomcooks wrote: post #128
elorant wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that there are a lot of unreported cases in Italy while in Korea authorities seem to ran more vigorously tests. So the latter might have much more accurate numbers than the former.

More rigorous tests than Italy, seriously?

You say "rigorous tests" OP said "vigorously tests". Very different meaning. The test in both countries is essentially the same, and thus the same rigor (in terms of sensitivity and specificity). The vigor by which the testing was performed (in terms of #people tested as a % of total pop) is WAY WAY higher in S. Korea.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#192

Post by neuronic »

taeric wrote: post #96
tomerico wrote: post #10

Italy has an older population, hence more susceptible to deaths and spreading of the virus: - Average age of death due to Coronavirus in Italy is 82 [1] - In Italy, 3.65% of the population is 80 or older [2]. - In Korea, 1.75% of the population is 80 or older [3] [1] https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/covid-19... [2] https://www.populationpyramid.net/italy/2019/ [3] https://www.populationpyramid.net/…

The part of Italy hit also has air quality, per aqi searches, that is comparable to the region in China that was hit hard. Have people looked that it is not age, but baseline damage to your lungs that is the main factor in serious cases? Older people will have more exposure to local air pollution, just from having lived longer. That existing damage can be what contributes to complications, right?

I wonder if and how long-term smokers are skewing the stats.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#193

Post by FriendlyNormie »

Fnoord wrote: post #93
enitihas wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is fine to let the idiots win on this one and rub it in our face forever. I would be willing to boost the ego of anyone if we can contain this.

How will they affect the next corona virus or other pandemic though? They'll be able to see "COVID-19 was a joke, this one will be too".

You do understand that everything would have been fine if we simply pretended this virus didn’t exist, right? A few extremely old people would have died slightly sooner. That’s it.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#194

Post by selimthegrim »

PeterStuer wrote: post #74

There's sooooo many lies being propagated by different governments on the true state of things. This afternoon I watched a live broadcast of parliament in which the minister of health claimed Belgium was doing far more extensive testing than any other country on earth. This at a time when standing instructions to medical personnel are to only test people that are already admitted to hospital because of severe pulmona…

The surgeon general just gave a press conference in Baton Rouge with the governor of Louisiana saying we should only test people (or prioritize testing of) people with symptoms. This when we know asymptomatic people can be contagious for days.

The Port of New Orleans is testing embarking cruise ship passengers but not disembarking (!) ones. This when we have community spread in the parish already and have gone from 1 to 6 to 11 cases this week alone.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#195

Post by bane »

tomcooks wrote: post #128
elorant wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that there are a lot of unreported cases in Italy while in Korea authorities seem to ran more vigorously tests. So the latter might have much more accurate numbers than the former.

More rigorous tests than Italy, seriously?

South Korea used to be at about the same development index as Italy maybe...20 years ago? Today it's tied with Israel (as of 2018) and above Spain, France, and Italy.

The PPP is also about 10% higher than Italy and has about half the unemployment rate.

Most importantly it has one of the most advanced healthcare systems in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_o...

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#196

Post by neuronic »

landryraccoon wrote: post #183
marcinzm wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These are the aspects of life most likely to change after this is all over. People will forget about this in a year and go back to life like it's always been. Short term convenience trumps everything except short term negative consequences.

No. I remember 9/11, and this feels worse. The world won’t be the same for a decade. Are you too young to remember when you could just walk straight onto a plane without being searched? Those days never came back.

From now on, a serious pandemic will never be some weird future scenario ever again. It will be a politicized issue.

We are seeing a real pandemic - something that has been the stuff of Hollywood movies for most in our generation. Maybe it's comparable in some aspects to the only other WHO-official pandemic: HIV/AIDS.

But this has an order of magnitude more impact on the entire planet and societies as we know them.

The stock markets look like load test graphs I see in Grafana every day. Steady ramp up and then after 90 minutes boom its over back to 0.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#197

Post by 1-6 »

yongjik wrote: post #120
1-6 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Koreans rarely hold hands in friendship too. Shaking hands, etc. You bow instead. When you go on a date, you're lucky if you get to hold hands on the first date. Kissing in public? Unacceptable.

Well, yeah, but go to a restaurant in Korea and everybody thrusts their spoons and chopsticks into shared side dishes and soup bowls. That must count for something. :/

H.Pylori

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#198

Post by neuronic »

marcinzm wrote: post #186
landryraccoon wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I remember 9/11, and this feels worse. The world won’t be the same for a decade. Are you too young to remember when you could just walk straight onto a plane without being searched? Those days never came back.

I remember 9/11, saw the second plane hit with my own eyes. Other than airports and flying being more inconvenient nothing fundamental really changed as I saw it. People still traveled, people still flew and so on. Now you just budget an extra hour before a flight.

Geopolitics has seen massive impact since then. For example, the rise of ISIS is a direct descendant of the Iraq war which is a direct consequence of corrupt and criminal decision making by the Bush/Cheney admin in response to 9/11.

Debatable if the Arab Spring would have occurred without it, as the Middle East might have been much more stable.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#199

Post by spac »

toolz wrote: post #175
adventured wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your 10% premise is wrong because you're conflating intensive care capacity and regular hospital beds. You can't just put Covid patients in with the general hospital population and it isn't trivial to convert other hospital beds to the requirements of Covid while ensuring you keep everyone else in the hospital safe from infection. Lombardy does not have anywhere near enough intensive care capacity to handle the cases…

A quick google suggests around 15% of hospital beds are ICU and covid 19 cases that end up in the hospital, only 5% end up in ICU. So that's an interesting line of thinking but it lacks supporting evidence that covid 19 is overwhelming ICU. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2002032 edit to address your edit: The mortality rate is often wildly inflated with new diseases. That's because most people don't seem…

The ICU beds are also taken by all the other sick people. Only a minority is actually free. And people don’t end up in the ICU because they panic: I spoke to several Italian hospital doctors and they are overwhelmed by the troves of patients who can’t breathe.

Re: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

#200

Post by Camillo »

taeric wrote: post #96
tomerico wrote: post #10

Italy has an older population, hence more susceptible to deaths and spreading of the virus: - Average age of death due to Coronavirus in Italy is 82 [1] - In Italy, 3.65% of the population is 80 or older [2]. - In Korea, 1.75% of the population is 80 or older [3] [1] https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/covid-19... [2] https://www.populationpyramid.net/italy/2019/ [3] https://www.populationpyramid.net/…

The part of Italy hit also has air quality, per aqi searches, that is comparable to the region in China that was hit hard. Have people looked that it is not age, but baseline damage to your lungs that is the main factor in serious cases? Older people will have more exposure to local air pollution, just from having lived longer. That existing damage can be what contributes to complications, right?

Source? Right now air in Wuhan [0] seems to be significantly worse than Milan [1]. Both cities are under some level of quarantine, but it has been stricter and going on for much longer in Wuhan. Chinese sources say that the air in Wuhan is much better than it was before the quarantine. We can assume that the difference between the two cities would be even larger during normal activity.

Edit: Milan is much closer to Seoul [2] than to Wuhan.

[0]: https://www.airvisual.com/china/hubei/wuhan

[1]: https://www.airvisual.com/italy/lombardy/milano

[2]: https://www.airvisual.com/south-korea/seoul

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