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Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

courtlistener.com

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Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#121

Post by ObsoleteNerd »

laxd wrote: post #119
einpoklum wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important: That link is _not_ intended for donations towards paying the fine, but rather Ms. Manning's legal defense!

Whats the difference? She needs x amounts of money.

The link above goes to paying her legal team. Her fine will come from her own funds separately. Your lawyers don't pay your fines, you do personally.

Ideally, her legal team or someone would put up a separate fundraiser for her fine, that goes specifically to paying that. I for one would definitely donate.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#123

Post by jacquesm »

RosanaAnaDana wrote: post #106
dragonwriter wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's generally hard for trans people to find employment, period -- and I doubt she has meaningful job skills given her extended imprisonment. She's a celebrity speaker with a large upper-middle-class fan base, so as long as their interest doesn't go somewhere else she’ll probably do okay. Of course, if her opponents don't do their part to keep her in the news, the attention will wane. > Also, I don't think it's leg…

I mean, I'd pay to see her speak.

I'd pay just for what she did. It would be nice if she pointed us to a place where we can donate directly to her.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#124

Post by dragonwriter »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #117
wayoutthere wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's generally hard for trans people to find employment, period -- and I doubt she has meaningful job skills given her extended imprisonment. That said, trans people rally around our own so she shouldn't have trouble surviving; but whether or not that life is existentially fulfilling is another question... Also, I don't think it's legal to jail someone over unpaid debt (though many states will certainly try). They ca…

> Also, I don't think it's legal to jail someone over unpaid debt It frequently is, IF the debt is to the legal system.

You cannot legally be jailed for failing to pay a debt, even to the legal system; you can be jailed for refusing to do so, but that requires ability to pay.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#125

Post by rtkwe »

andy_ppp wrote: post #72
LiquidSky wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>secret courts This was a normal public federal district court, not the FISA court or the like. Or did you mean the concept of grand juries? > trying to coerce people into doing things If people aren't voluntarily complying with orders and subpoenas, what would you suggest be done?

The concept of grand juries. I would actually say it’s almost impossible to compel people to be witnesses. If the witness believes the court to be politically motivated (which you can’t believe it isn’t) then morally of course it’s the correct decision not to testify. I for one wouldn’t give a shit at this point, I’d say just about anything to make these people leave me alone. Another problem with the coercion aspect…

> I for one wouldn’t give a shit at this point, I’d say just about anything to make these people leave me alone. Another problem with the coercion aspect of this, my testimony couldn’t be trusted...

The punishment for that is a jail sentence for the actual crime of lying under oath they call it perjury... You're not actually getting out of prison doing that unless you can lie without ever messing up or contradicting something the state already knows.

It's a tricky line subpoenas need some method of enforcement or they're basically toothless but there's definitely a line where contempt of court goes too far.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#126

Post by 101404 »

chx wrote: post #118
einpoklum wrote: post #100

The judge assumes without comment that it was justified to hold Manning in the first place, and finds that she must now pay $256,000 for refusing to collaborate with the government anti-freedom-of-the-press campaign against Julian Assange. Shameful.

Shameful? Yes. Freedom of the press for trying to persecute a Russian agent? Well... Sources: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/mueller-report-de... https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/15/ecuador-concluded-t... https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia... And so on.

Please don't perpetuate those lies.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#127

Post by irjustin »

laxd wrote: post #119
einpoklum wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important: That link is _not_ intended for donations towards paying the fine, but rather Ms. Manning's legal defense!

Whats the difference? She needs x amounts of money.

Right, but the primary reason you would support Manning is because you believe the government is in the wrong and that the $256k is considered coercive because the government is using it to pressure her into doing something that isn't in her best interest in regards to a fair trial.

So the goal would be to pay lawyer fees to fight the $256k of fees.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#128

Post by ohyeshedid »

ryanlol wrote: post #112
ohyeshedid wrote: post #77

It's a shame lamo didn't make it to see this. I know it really fucked him up to out her. That would be such a nightmare situation to be in.

>I know it really fucked him up to out her Did it really? Lamo was a person who’d go out of his way to seek out kids to snitch on just to amuse himself.

According to his own words, yes. I knew lamo for just shy of 20 years.

I will not defend his character; his regular drug abuse and mental health issues could make him unpredictable, mean, vicious, etc. I've never called him a friend, but he was a peer, had a keen mind, and was fascinatingly unique.

I'm not defending him, but as someone that spent years conversing with him and sharing information, both online and in person, including discussions about this exact topic: Yeah, it really messed him up. Anyone that he was comfortable conversing with would say the same.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#129

Post by irjustin »

mindslight wrote: post #58
jlgaddis wrote: post #13

If anyone knows of a (legit) way to donate or make a payment towards her $256,000 in fines, please do share the details.

Why would you want to throw away money paying an illegitimate debt? Donate to a trust that will take care of her instead.

Is there some trust that cannot be touched by a lien placed by the government?

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#130

Post by paulddraper »

cfv wrote: post #120

What's the legal reasoning (if there's any) to keep her locked up and ruin her financially while not being able to swing the same punishment at all those people who refused to testify in the recent impeachment?

Presidents being impeached (and their administrations) have always refused Congress's requests for testimony and documentation.

Congress can take the President to court and compel documents and testimony (or else face contempt of court and imprisonment like Manning). The House did exactly that for Nixon and Cliton.

For Trump, the House chose not to do that, because (I believe) it would slow them down, and that wasn't acceptable to them.

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