Did they just charge her a quarter of a million dollars for refusing to speak. What a crock of thuggy shit justice department.
Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
101–110 of 362 posts
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#102Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#103If anyone knows of a (legit) way to donate or make a payment towards her $256,000 in fines, please do share the details.
Her lawyer ( https://twitter.com/chasestrangio ) retweeted a link to https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/chelsea-manning-needs-...
Important: That link is _not_ intended for donations towards paying the fine, but rather Ms. Manning's legal defense!
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#104Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Manning was being squeezed to get at Assange, who most people on HN agree is himself only being squeezed for geopolitical reasons. Nobody is happy to see the justice system abused for geopolitical goals, so any step away from "jail all of the dissenters and all of their supporters" is good to see.
I am baffled that no matter how many times Assange (and a fair number of NY State Fed LEOs) say "It wasn't the Russians", that the "system" nor the "media" nor the "people" seem to be able to take him at face value: It wasn't the Russians. (Even CrowdStrike seems to be backing away from those claims in this last week)
> Even CrowdStrike seems to be backing away from those claims in this last week
This is untrue:
As we’ve repeatedly stated, we stand by the findings and analysis of our investigation, and, as detailed in our company statement, we’ve provided all forensic evidence and analysis to the FBI as requested. Additionally, our findings have been supported by the U.S. intelligence community and other cybersecurity companies.
https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democ...
> Assange... say[s] "It wasn't the Russians"
Has he actually said that? The actual quotes I've seen have not been definitive:
"The same day, Assange told NBC News that "it's what's in the emails that's important, not who hacked them." When asked by NBC News if WikiLeaks might have been used to distribute documents stolen as part of a Russian intelligence operation, Assange replied: "There is no proof of that whatsoever. We have not disclosed our source."[1]
and
"On Sean Hannity’s radio show, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said that hacked Democratic documents sent to reporters at Gawker and The Hill may have come from Russia. But, he said, he is confident the emails he received did not come from the same source.".. "“Our source is not the Russian government,” said Assange, later claiming WikiLeaks did not receive its material from any state actor, Russia or otherwise."[2]
(Note "state actor" - which would align with the idea that the hacking group is just under direction of Russian intel, not that it is part of it)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer_2.0
[2] https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310654-assange-some...
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's generally hard for trans people to find employment, period -- and I doubt she has meaningful job skills given her extended imprisonment. That said, trans people rally around our own so she shouldn't have trouble surviving; but whether or not that life is existentially fulfilling is another question... Also, I don't think it's legal to jail someone over unpaid debt (though many states will certainly try). They ca…
> It's generally hard for trans people to find employment, period -- and I doubt she has meaningful job skills given her extended imprisonment. She's a celebrity speaker with a large upper-middle-class fan base, so as long as their interest doesn't go somewhere else she’ll probably do okay. Of course, if her opponents don't do their part to keep her in the news, the attention will wane. > Also, I don't think it's leg…
I mean, I'd pay to see her speak.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s not how it works Michael. You don’t “avoid” fines by declaring bankruptcy. You can go through a bankruptcy process and as the debtor you may be forgiven from certain things that the other side will clearly never receive money from, but this isn’t a clean slate trick you just do and walk away from. You basically convert your obligation into distrust. And can “refinance” some debts including judgments against yo…
I have no idea what the implications of bankruptcy are in the US, but it sounds like you are alluding to something serious - aside from no credit, what would Manning face in this scenario?
No, you are entirely misreading that. You don’t just get everything reset to zero. So bad credit, yes, but also maybe a condition is that you are still on the hook for legal fees but they have been worked down to 50,000 and the payments have been rescheduled to 20 years.
It’s a legal process, not an eraser.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Her lawyer ( https://twitter.com/chasestrangio ) retweeted a link to https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/chelsea-manning-needs-...
Important: That link is _not_ intended for donations towards paying the fine, but rather Ms. Manning's legal defense!
Do you have more information about this? I saw this link posted a lot in response to this question, but no actual details.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Manning was being squeezed to get at Assange, who most people on HN agree is himself only being squeezed for geopolitical reasons. Nobody is happy to see the justice system abused for geopolitical goals, so any step away from "jail all of the dissenters and all of their supporters" is good to see.
I am baffled that no matter how many times Assange (and a fair number of NY State Fed LEOs) say "It wasn't the Russians", that the "system" nor the "media" nor the "people" seem to be able to take him at face value: It wasn't the Russians. (Even CrowdStrike seems to be backing away from those claims in this last week)
1. Please don't use the term "The Russians". That could mean any Russian national, or Russian corporation, or the Russian government. Conflating all of those is a mechanism for smearing all of "The Russians" for actions not by all of "The Russians".
2. Even if Russia had provided Wikileaks with the Democratic Party emails (which it probably didn't), that wouldn't matter, i.e. Wikileaks was still quite justified in publishing them.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#110Can Manning avoid the fines by declaring bankruptcy?
IANAL. My understanding is that "Punishment fines" aren't dischargable in a Chapter 7, but a chapter 13 could be used to help make it easier to pay them down over time. "Reimbursement fines," which are fines where the government is trying to recoup its costs, are dischargable.
Now, Manning was held in civil contempt and not criminal contempt, which MIGHT make a difference, but I'm guessing not for chapter 7? But, again, not a lawyer.