Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#41

Post by clairity » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #20

I’ve said it before but the idea of secret courts trying to coerce people into doing things seems extremely backwards and regressive. Maybe I don’t understand this system but it doesn’t seem to be about getting justice. If there is testimony already given as well it seems doubly wrong, inconsistent and hateful.

> "Maybe I don’t understand this system..."

sounds like you understand the system pretty well. the US is grounded in a limited federal government and the right to vigorously oppose it (short of, say, revolt) without persecution (see: bill of rights).

holding manning in jail for so long was persecutory and unjust.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#42

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

bosswipe wrote: post #12

TLDR; the Assange grand jury was dismissed today so Manning is ordered released but she still owes the coeercive fines which amount to $256,000.

That is obscene. I can just about understand contempt of court incarceration for not testifying (though I have extreme reservations on the practice) but such punitive and life-debilitating fines strike me as purely malicious.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#43

Post by wonderwonder » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:12 PM UTC

ci5er wrote: post #28

jlgaddis wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because she is being released from incarceration!?

Uhhhh, yeah. I was curious about why this is a "good thing". I think I got a response that tries to respond to that more specifically up-thread. Thank you.

She is in jail for refusing to testify in front of a secret jury. The grand jury is essentially a politically motivated persecution of Julian Assange. She has already spent 7 years in jail for her part in the Wiki leaks mess and then they threw her in jail again. She released tapes to Assange documenting US killing of civilians. She is clearly a psychologically damaged person and now they are just trying to break her.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#44

Post by komali2 » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #33

causality0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Courts have as much to do with justice as HR departments. Both exist only to protect the higher-ups. It's not about protecting people; it's about protecting power and those who wield it.

That doesn’t make sense. Courts are independent (in theory) whereas HR is directly paid by and depending on the company.

> Courts are independent (in theory)

In the last couple years the {in practice} part has made this independence completely untrue.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#45

Post by kick » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

jswizzy wrote: post #39

karthikshan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning tl;dr she was a whistleblower facing the wrath of the people she outed

Manning was never a whistleblower hence the espionage charges.

She was a whistleblower, hence everyone with a hint of credibility saying she was.

Also, it's customary on HN to point out when you have a conflict of interest. You work for a military contractor & used to work for the government, and probably should disclose that when talking about a subject so closely tied to your work.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#46

Post by saghm » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:14 PM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #33

causality0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Courts have as much to do with justice as HR departments. Both exist only to protect the higher-ups. It's not about protecting people; it's about protecting power and those who wield it.

That doesn’t make sense. Courts are independent (in theory) whereas HR is directly paid by and depending on the company.

I don't necessarily agree with GP, but don't judges get government salaries?

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#47

Post by monocasa » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

wideasleep1 wrote: post #21

wideasleep1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her attorneys recently said 'half million' in fines...so I'm confuzzled.

"..more than a half million dollars in fines..." https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/814974205/chelsea-manning-rec... edit: downvoted why? It's an article from today, 1:44pm...

There's been two distinct grand juries, each of which have caused her to be reincarcerated. Maybe she still has fines form the first one?

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#48

Post by umvi » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

ci5er wrote: post #28

jlgaddis wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because she is being released from incarceration!?

Uhhhh, yeah. I was curious about why this is a "good thing". I think I got a response that tries to respond to that more specifically up-thread. Thank you.

Well, there are many different... idealogical alignments in America.

Some believe Manning is a hero who followed her conscience and leaked classified information in order to inform the public of secret crimes the government/military committed.

Others think what Manning did was incredibly reckless and treasonous, tantamount to selling secrets to the enemy (just without the "selling" part)

So to answer your question, people in the first camp see news like this as a good thing.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#49

Post by resters » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:17 PM UTC

It’s so sad that one of the most courageous soldiers in the history of the US military has been treated so horribly by the government.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#50

Post by lawnchair_larry » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 10:17 PM UTC

ci5er wrote: post #31

whatshisface wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning was being squeezed to get at Assange, who most people on HN agree is himself only being squeezed for geopolitical reasons. Nobody is happy to see the justice system abused for geopolitical goals, so any step away from "jail all of the dissenters and all of their supporters" is good to see.

I am baffled that no matter how many times Assange (and a fair number of NY State Fed LEOs) say "It wasn't the Russians", that the "system" nor the "media" nor the "people" seem to be able to take him at face value: It wasn't the Russians. (Even CrowdStrike seems to be backing away from those claims in this last week)

What are you talking about? It was Russians (at least two independent Russian groups even) and CrowdStrike has only reiterated that. CrowdStrike is also not the only source of that intelligence.

It doesn’t matter what Assange said, the only thing he could possibly know is who gave it to him. He doesn’t know where his source got it, even if his source was not Russian.

I’m also pretty sure that no LEOs said any such thing.