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Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

courtlistener.com

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Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#31

Post by ci5er »

whatshisface wrote: post #23
ci5er wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I'm not familiar with the facts of the case. And, I further realize that facts are almost completely immaterial to motivated reasoning about the case, but... ... assuming that you (or someone) is a straight-shooter, why is this "fantastic news"?

Manning was being squeezed to get at Assange, who most people on HN agree is himself only being squeezed for geopolitical reasons. Nobody is happy to see the justice system abused for geopolitical goals, so any step away from "jail all of the dissenters and all of their supporters" is good to see.

I am baffled that no matter how many times Assange (and a fair number of NY State Fed LEOs) say "It wasn't the Russians", that the "system" nor the "media" nor the "people" seem to be able to take him at face value: It wasn't the Russians. (Even CrowdStrike seems to be backing away from those claims in this last week)

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#33

Post by Ididntdothis »

causality0 wrote: post #27
andy_ppp wrote: post #20

I’ve said it before but the idea of secret courts trying to coerce people into doing things seems extremely backwards and regressive. Maybe I don’t understand this system but it doesn’t seem to be about getting justice. If there is testimony already given as well it seems doubly wrong, inconsistent and hateful.

Courts have as much to do with justice as HR departments. Both exist only to protect the higher-ups. It's not about protecting people; it's about protecting power and those who wield it.

That doesn’t make sense. Courts are independent (in theory) whereas HR is directly paid by and depending on the company.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#34

Post by Zenst »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #7

The last page states she will owe $256,000 in fines and the motion to dismiss them was denied. Really?

With a law degree going to cost you near on $150,000 in student debt, you start to think of limited options and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage has many forms.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#36

Post by ci5er »

callahad wrote: post #19
ci5er wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She attempted suicide and a judge decided that she need not be incarcerated to compel her to be a witness.

That's not at all what the court order says.

It also makes the reasonable point that the Assange grand jury had been dismissed, but IIRC (and it's only been two or three hours) the court's statement was clear that incarceration to compel was not necessary. (Probably motivated more by the grand jury's conclusion than the suicide), but if you'd like to tell all of us what you think they said, that would be super!

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#38

Post by jMyles »

Zenst wrote: post #17

I'm wondering if jail is a safer or less safer place in light of the current pandemic. Let's face it, if you got your freedom after so many years only to be handed a facemask on your way out and told - you will need this. Has to suck at some level.

> I'm wondering if jail is a safer or less safer place

It is so much less safe that a global pandemic isn't nearly enough to tip the balance, even if prisoners were 100% immune.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#39

Post by jswizzy »

karthikshan wrote: post #22
ci5er wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I'm not familiar with the facts of the case. And, I further realize that facts are almost completely immaterial to motivated reasoning about the case, but... ... assuming that you (or someone) is a straight-shooter, why is this "fantastic news"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning tl;dr she was a whistleblower facing the wrath of the people she outed

Manning was never a whistleblower hence the espionage charges.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#40

Post by Cyberdog »

Zenst wrote: post #17

I'm wondering if jail is a safer or less safer place in light of the current pandemic. Let's face it, if you got your freedom after so many years only to be handed a facemask on your way out and told - you will need this. Has to suck at some level.

Sometimes freedom and safety are at odds with each other. I will always side with freedom, and take my odds against a pandemic.

But of course this is an academic exercise pretending that prisons, or especially jails which have a higher rate of people coming and going, are impermeable to an infectious disease. The truth is that once it's in there, it's in there, and only the (further) inhumane act of locking the inmates up in their individual cells 24/7 (so no social time, no visits to the library, etc) will stop it.

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