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Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

cnbc.com

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Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#241

Post by zaptheimpaler »

tw04 wrote: post #69
gdubs wrote: post #13

As the joke goes, a trillion here a trillion there and pretty soon you're talking about some real money! But in seriousness, the next week is a critical time in the world. I remember sitting in an airport when news of Lehman Brothers collapse was flashing on the TV screens. I'm reminded of that time. We learned later about how Hank Paulson got down on one knee and begged Nancy Pelosi to go along with is plan to save…

>But if there were ever a time for us not to be partisan and tribal, it's now. You say that like both parties are trying to deny testing and are refusing to provide the social safety net for workers to stay home when they're sick. This is very much not a "both sides" discussion. This is: the GOP needs to stop trying to pretend like nothing is wrong and actually DO SOMETHING to prevent this from becoming an even bigge…

Slight tangent, but the excessive focus on tests is misguided. The tests give us more data but make little difference unless they are used to rapidly trace outbreaks and quarantine entire areas, which just has not happened. And with something this viral, its only a matter of time before it spreads everywhere.

The focus needs to be on slowing the spread and treatment.

The treatment is about supporting the body while it fights the virus, and highly dependent on how & where the virus manifests. Some need oxygen therapy, some need antivirals, some even need lung transplants. In cases where the virus affects other organs, totally different treatment applies. The resource constraint there is general medical capacity - doctors, beds, ICUs, oxygen support, and probably a hundred other things.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#242

Post by tomp »

munk-a wrote: post #44
anonu wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all dollars are created equally

Yea, dollars put into student loan forgiveness actually pay themselves off many times over due to the high velocity of cash in the hands in young people - money injected into the market has a comparatively low velocity and tends to just get exported overseas.

Why would you forgive student loans? That way you reward incompetence. Instead, you should give each young person $300k - some would repay their student loans, others (who were more prudent with their choice of education) would have down-payment for a house or something... Forgiving just the student loans would create massive perverse incentives.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#243

Post by wonderwonder »

hef19898 wrote: post #112
gdubs wrote: post #13

As the joke goes, a trillion here a trillion there and pretty soon you're talking about some real money! But in seriousness, the next week is a critical time in the world. I remember sitting in an airport when news of Lehman Brothers collapse was flashing on the TV screens. I'm reminded of that time. We learned later about how Hank Paulson got down on one knee and begged Nancy Pelosi to go along with is plan to save…

> The lack of testing will maybe turn out to be one of the biggest scandals of my lifetime. If I had to choose one thing that should change right now, it is this. Aggressive testing of everyone, starting with contact persons, persons travelling from high risk areas and then basically everyone. Would allow a much better understanding of the situation and make any measures way more effective. Other than that, the measu…

Except we can't test everyone as many people will not want to get tested. Hourly workers without paid sick leave will not get tested if a positive result means they have to not get paid for 14+ days. They cant afford it. Not going to work means their kids don't eat. So they go to work sick and everyone else around them gets it.

The poor without insurance also cannot afford the test or treatment.

Testing is important but providing real benefits to those that are potentially infected will incentivize them to get tested. Otherwise we are going to struggle with getting this contained.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#244

Post by nie100sowny »

Coronavirus is not a cause, but it is just an igniter.

The true cause of a crisis is pumping money into institutions which should bankrupt years ago. Pumping because we were too much afraid of normal crisis back then and now we get that crisis, but multiplied by 10 in terms of impact and time period.

Crisis is good in economy. It let big, old and damaged trees to fall and to give more sun light to small healthy trees which may start to grow.

Instead of pumping money into stock market which only feeds the richest ones, we should let them bankrupt to make a space for more healthy businesses. Unfortunately people on average do not understand it and still elect interventionists. It postpones crisis, increases income gap and make crisis at the end much more damaging.

We are very close to see a bankruptcy of Italy. Then banks which bought their bonds will follow. With the Deutche Bank on top.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#245

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

munk-a wrote: post #226
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, reading your side's politicians the way you expect (charitably) and the other side's politicians the way you expect (uncharitably), you end up with the divisions we have now. I'd suggest reading both charitably regarding interpretation, then being cynical regarding whether it'll really happen/whether it's honest. [edit: (charitably) and (uncharitably), not (charitably) and (charitably)]

I think that is a noble stance to take and for a long time I was in that pack - but politicians lie a lot so now, whenever it sounds like a politician is leaving themselves an out I will assume they are doing so if they have a past track record of such (even if it is relatively rare). Additionally, I don't take the words I hear from politicians on my side (if that's really an accurate term) charitably either. I err o…

There's a difference between what they mean and whether they're telling the truth. If Trump says something that you could interpret uncharitably as "I eat babies every night" or charitably as "I eat caviar every night," then it's best to interpret it charitably. But then you call him on his bullshit that no he doesn't eat caviar every night.

Charitable interpretation, cynical trust.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#246

Post by hef19898 »

wonderwonder wrote: post #243
hef19898 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lack of testing will maybe turn out to be one of the biggest scandals of my lifetime. If I had to choose one thing that should change right now, it is this. Aggressive testing of everyone, starting with contact persons, persons travelling from high risk areas and then basically everyone. Would allow a much better understanding of the situation and make any measures way more effective. Other than that, the measu…

Except we can't test everyone as many people will not want to get tested. Hourly workers without paid sick leave will not get tested if a positive result means they have to not get paid for 14+ days. They cant afford it. Not going to work means their kids don't eat. So they go to work sick and everyone else around them gets it. The poor without insurance also cannot afford the test or treatment. Testing is important…

Not in the US, not really a big problem across Europe.

But you are right. So right. Because I would do the same if I were in that position. And again the weakest people and families are hit worst. Maybe it serves as a wake-up call why universal health care is important. It enables so many things, not just robust disease response.

Edit: Fixed the first sentence.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#249

Post by sg47 »

malandrew wrote: post #180
tw04 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But if there were ever a time for us not to be partisan and tribal, it's now. You say that like both parties are trying to deny testing and are refusing to provide the social safety net for workers to stay home when they're sick. This is very much not a "both sides" discussion. This is: the GOP needs to stop trying to pretend like nothing is wrong and actually DO SOMETHING to prevent this from becoming an even bigge…

Lamar Alexander was not against providing this support. He blocked it based on how it was going to be paid for. It's very much a partisan issue because the Democrats want companies to foot the bill. The GOP thinks that if Washington DC thinks companies should do something then Washington DC should foot the bill. Neither side disagrees that people should have this support. All the Democrats had to do is introduce the…

Companies can pay from their CEO's paychecks. Are you telling me Walmart and McDonald's are hurting? What's the net worth of their founders' families again?

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#250

Post by chrisco255 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #195
chrisco255 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did that weeks ago. Where have you been? They shut down travel from China a month ago. Which countries managed to contain this thing, by the way? Because I see tens of thousands of cases in Europe and Asia and the Middle East, by the way.

Taiwan and Singapore appear to be containing it thus far. China, too, if you can trust their numbers, and South Korea's look positive after a big starting spike. Each of these countries took early (except for China, but they shut down Wuhan with fewer cases than the US has now), aggressive steps that should be considered a model for others.

South Korea has 8,000 active cases, over 114 today alone. Singapore has a population of 5.8M. They've got 178 cases. The U.S. has a population of 320M with 1338 cases. That means their infection rate is nearly 10x higher than the U.S. Meanwhile, we are taking action. Shutting down European travel, Chinese travel, cancelling schools, cancelling NBA season, NHL season, etc, etc...We are taking aggressive steps.
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