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U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

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Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#891
post #596

An executive order is not in effect until published in the federal register. Whatever is published there is what actually matters. As of now this executive order has not been published. You can check here: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/search?conditions%...

I assume the following [1] will be filed in the Federal Register beginning with this paragraph that starts with:

  NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States
and then starting with the words

  by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America
[1]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation...

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#892
post #891
post #596

An executive order is not in effect until published in the federal register. Whatever is published there is what actually matters. As of now this executive order has not been published. You can check here: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/search?conditions%...

I assume the following [1] will be filed in the Federal Register beginning with this paragraph that starts with: NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States and then starting with the words by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America [1]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation...

Here is the full text that will likely be published in the Federal Register. Double-check when it has been published.

> by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including sections 212(f) and 215(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f) and 1185(a), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, hereby find that the unrestricted entry into the United States of persons described in section 1 of this proclamation would, except as provided for in section 2 of this proclamation, be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and that their entry should be subject to certain restrictions, limitations, and exceptions. I therefore hereby proclaim the following:

> Section 1. Suspension and Limitation on Entry. The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the Schengen Area during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States is hereby suspended and limited subject to section 2 of this proclamation.

> Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.

> (a) Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to:

> (i) any lawful permanent resident of the United States;

> (ii) any alien who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident;

> (iii) any alien who is the parent or legal guardian of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident is unmarried and under the age of 21;

> (iv) any alien who is the sibling of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that both are unmarried and under the age of 21;

> (v) any alien who is the child, foster child, or ward of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, or who is a prospective adoptee seeking to enter the United States pursuant to the IR-4 or IH-4 visa classifications;

> (vi) any alien traveling at the invitation of the United States Government for a purpose related to containment or mitigation of the virus;

> (vii) any alien traveling as a nonimmigrant pursuant to a C-1, D, or C-1/D nonimmigrant visa as a crewmember or any alien otherwise traveling to the United States as air or sea crew;

> (viii) any alien

> (A) seeking entry into or transiting the United States pursuant to one of the following visas: A-1, A-2, C-2, C-3 (as a foreign government official or immediate family member of an official), E-1 (as an employee of TECRO or TECO or the employee’s immediate family members), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1 through NATO-4, or NATO-6 (or seeking to enter as a nonimmigrant in one of those NATO categories); or

> (B) whose travel falls within the scope of section 11 of the United Nations Headquarters Agreement;

> (ix) any alien whose entry would not pose a significant risk of introducing, transmitting, or spreading the virus, as determined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, through the CDC Director or his designee;

> (x) any alien whose entry would further important United States law enforcement objectives, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their respective designees, based on a recommendation of the Attorney General or his designee;

> (xi) any alien whose entry would be in the national interest, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their designees; or

> (xii) members of the U.S. Armed Forces and spouses and children of members of the U.S. Armed Forces.

> (b) Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to affect any individual’s eligibility for asylum, withholding of removal, or protection under the regulations issued pursuant to the legislation implementing the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, consistent with the laws and regulations of the United States.

> Sec. 3. Implementation and Enforcement. (a) The Secretary of State shall implement this proclamation as it applies to visas pursuant to such procedures as the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, may establish. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall implement this proclamation as it applies to the entry of aliens pursuant to such procedures as the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State, may establish.

> (b) Consistent with applicable law, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Transportation, and the Secretary of Homeland Security shall ensure that any alien subject to this proclamation does not board an aircraft traveling to the United States.

> (c) The Secretary of Homeland Security may establish standards and procedures to ensure the application of this proclamation at and between all United States ports of entry.

> (d) An alien who circumvents the application of this proclamation through fraud, willful misrepresentation of a material fact, or illegal entry shall be a priority for removal by the Department of Homeland Security.

> Sec. 4. Termination. This proclamation shall remain in effect until terminated by the President. The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall recommend that the President continue, modify, or terminate this proclamation as described in section 5 of Proclamation 9984, as amended.

> Sec. 5. Effective Date. This proclamation is effective at 11:59 p.m. eastern daylight time on March 13, 2020. This proclamation does not apply to persons aboard a flight scheduled to arrive in the United States that departed prior to 11:59 p.m. eastern daylight time on March 13, 2020.

> Sec. 6. Severability. It is the policy of the United States to enforce this proclamation to the maximum extent possible to advance the national security, public safety, and foreign policy interests of the United States. Accordingly:

> (a) if any provision of this proclamation, or the application of any provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be invalid, the remainder of this proclamation and the application of its provisions to any other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby; and

> (b) if any provision of this proclamation, or the application of any provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be invalid because of the lack of certain procedural requirements, the relevant executive branch officials shall implement those procedural requirements to conform with existing law and with any applicable court orders.

> Sec. 7. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

> (i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

> (ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

> (b) This proclamation shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

> (c) This proclamation is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

> IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this eleventh day of March, in the year of our Lord two thousand twenty, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-fourth.

> DONALD J. TRUMP

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the virus can spread on surfaces I think. As well as food, and organic matter.

No. From the CDC: > It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads. > In general, because of poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, there is likely very low risk of spread from food products or packaging that are shipp…

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/...

The CDC themselves were involved in the study that says you're wrong.

If someone is able to find the source for this info I'd really appreciate it. Just spent like 10 minutes trying to find the paper they're citing but I can't find it and I don't have time to keep looking now. Maybe it isn't published?

It might be this one, actually. This one suggests it can live up to 72 hours on certain surfaces. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v...

I'd love to have some more data on this if anyone can provide.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analogies can also be used to dehumanize victims. It's pretty unproductive to refer to people as vermin, coyotes, animals, etc. Unless you're trying to "highlight common characteristics."

A knife can be used to murder but if you point that out to the chef discussing technique in the kitchen, then you are not adding useful information to the conversation.

It's entirely appropriate to tell the chef he's about to cut off his thumb.

You're not an expert and you're spouting xenophobic bullshit. Take the L.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again not even close, France for instance has a death rate 10x ours per capita, that's gonna take way more than 5-6 days. The statement is inaccurate any way you slice it. Why use incomplete information when more is available?

He didn't say per capita. The statement was accurate. It may not be a useful metric, but it was an accurate one.

> He didn't say per capita.

But it's also not the case when looking only at absolute numbers either. I would also argue that per capita is implied because it's the only way you can really make that comparison.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#896

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the upper bound on CFR" I think you mean that this should be considered the goal upper bound on CFR. It's really the lower bound on CFR if you do everything right. If you do everything wrong, like the US is heading towards, you get overloaded health systems, critical shortages, and a 12% CFR or higher.

A 12% CFR is overstating it, but also because we won't be counting the heart attacks that weren't treated, the chemo and radiation therapy that was postponed, and the other health effects. I think the true measure will be the year over year total mortality.

If our health systems are not overwhelmed, sure definitely 12% is overstating it. If they are, look out!

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"His actions clearly indicate he doesn't believe it is a hoax." Huh? He called Fox News and said on air ""So if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people [with COVID-19] that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better,"" His whole schtick until just about a few hours ago was that the risks were all hugely overblown. I am als…

I don't know if I'd call that blatantly partisan. Stupid, perhaps, or a hamfisted attempt to prevent panics and economic crashes, but it's not especially political.

"it's not especially political"

Yes. Yes it is. How many times has Trump tweeted about the stock market and how it proves he is a great president? Hundreds. Literally. His NEA chair has explicitly stated "I have long believed that stock markets are the best barometer of the health, wealth and security of a nation. And today's stock market message is an unmistakable vote of confidence for the president." His entire political argument for reelection is premised on his "business acumen." His down playing of coronavirus (to what end? why?) was a blatantly partisan attempt to gamble that this whole thing would blow over rather than risk spooking the markets.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh we certainly can. "We" have decided not to, for now. One day we might find out the who/why/how of this decision. That will be an interesting day.

The who is pretty much everyone in government, egged on by the business community with the tacit approval or at least disinterest of the public. The when is constant over the past half century. The how is outsourcing much of our productive capability around the globe. The why is the race to the bottom for the cheapest production cost.

I don't think so. This is not a case like where we need a bunch of steal but the steel mills are closed so we have to buy the Chinese steel so (as any good business-folks will do) they raise prices 8-fold (see Oakland Bay Bridge Fiasco). The reagents for these tests are all made in america, or would take a few days to ramp up. I once made enough Taq polymerase in 12 hours to supply a lab for 12 years doing 200 PCRs a day. A single person can make gram quantities of the required oligos (enough for 100,000 PCR reactions) in any one of 500 labs in the Bay area alone in 12 hours. RT takes an hour. Amplification takes 4 hours. The readout for a sample can be done 1500 at a time in one second. There are no excuses.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The red tape thing is nonsense. What was lacking was/is political will. CDC/FDA/States could increase testing 100-fold overnight if they really wanted to. A decision has been made to proceed differently. Hopefully this decision is reconsidered over the next few days or things are going to get much worse. Currently, as far as I can tell, we are doing about 1000 tests a day nationwide. I can order the necessary reagent…

I have read somewhere that CDC was trying to make a 3-in-1 test kit for SARS, MERS and this new SARS-Cov-2 virus but it was giving bad accuracy and false positives, and now they are making the one for the sars-cov-2 only.

They were making a 3 in 1 kit, but that's because the 1 was an internal control and the other 2 were two different places in the viral genome in case one mutated and became silent.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The red tape thing is nonsense. What was lacking was/is political will. CDC/FDA/States could increase testing 100-fold overnight if they really wanted to. A decision has been made to proceed differently. Hopefully this decision is reconsidered over the next few days or things are going to get much worse. Currently, as far as I can tell, we are doing about 1000 tests a day nationwide. I can order the necessary reagent…

Can you cite anything to back this up?

Any standard first year undergrad level biology book will describe how to run an RT-PCR test (which is what they are doing). None of the reagents and processes are difficult to make or source.
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