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Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

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Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#171
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what gdubs was trying to get across is that sure, there are problems, people to blame, etc. but now is not the time. We have to get our act together and handle the situation. We can't have petty fighting betweeen parties. Now is the time to unite and act. We can fight, argue and point fingers once this is all behind us.

They're literally blocking COVID emergency budget bills getting passed in the Senate This is time to fall in line or be thrown out of your job.

Why don't Republicans need to fall in line when Democrats pass much needed relief for coronavirus?

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#172

Can someone tell me, with a straight face, how this won't cause inflation at one of the worst points to have such?

Economic theories regarding inflation aren't so simple. It is not simply true that increasing the money supply causes a proportional increase in inflation. There are other factors. Where does the money go? How is it being spent? Is product output increasing with increased demand? If the money ends up in wealthy bank accounts, not being spent, then it won't really affect our consumer prices, will it? If consumers have more money to spend, but factories can meet the increased demand, that won't increase prices either, but it will drive growth.

There is plenty of evidence for this. Consider that the US money supply more than doubled since 2008, yet our purchasing power for general goods didn't halve.

Asset prices have doubled, though. Fueled by QE or real growth? I'm inclined to think the former. Food for thought.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#173
post #13

As the joke goes, a trillion here a trillion there and pretty soon you're talking about some real money! But in seriousness, the next week is a critical time in the world. I remember sitting in an airport when news of Lehman Brothers collapse was flashing on the TV screens. I'm reminded of that time. We learned later about how Hank Paulson got down on one knee and begged Nancy Pelosi to go along with is plan to save…

I'm sorry, I simply don't understand the thought process here...

Question 1) Is the spread inevitable, or can we achieve containment?

Question 2) If it can't be contained, and worldwide spread is inevitable, approximately how many new cases per day do you want to see for the next 6 months?

I would say the answer to #1 is that spread is absolutely inevitable. There are way too many vectors, and it is way too virulent. I'd go further and say that I believe tens if not hundreds of millions of people have already been infected and will never have serious illness, but such a claim is really besides the point.

I would say the answer to #2 is; just so many as you don't run out of ventilators. And absolutely start setting up rows of ventilators in dedicated facilities in major cities.

So to those saying we should have done more, sooner... I ask, to what end? Follow through on the hypothetical "done more sooner" scenario. Worldometer says the US has 1,518 active cases, of which 10 are serious. So 10 people in the country are in an ICU for COVID-19 right now?

"Test everyone!" To what end? You don't need to test people in order to know if they need an ICU. The ICUs are not full - and you don't need more testing to tell you that. The main benefit to more testing would be that people who are self-quarantining due to potential exposure could maybe stop self-quarantining earlier. That's a fairly marginal benefit.

This isn't a situation where the world is going to shut down until a vaccine is available and administered to a billion people. This is a situation where the vast majority of people have mild symptoms, then herd immunity, and then will very much need to get back to work in order to buy groceries and pay their mortgage.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#175
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But if there were ever a time for us not to be partisan and tribal, it's now. You say that like both parties are trying to deny testing and are refusing to provide the social safety net for workers to stay home when they're sick. This is very much not a "both sides" discussion. This is: the GOP needs to stop trying to pretend like nothing is wrong and actually DO SOMETHING to prevent this from becoming an even bigge…

I think you allowed yourself to become overwhelmed with emotions. Both groups, and that is despite news that some of their own are infected, are playing games. It is silly to pretend it is just GOP. edit: spelling

I think it is a bit more nuanced than that.

My experience in large enterprises are that there are two kinds of "politics" that get played.

In one form, the leadership makes moves or take actions that benefit themselves but also help the company. Often that is called out as "leadership."

In the other form, the leadership makes moves or take actions that benefit themselves but hurts the company. That form is called "politics."

You can see examples all around of this. For example a CEO that buys another company, the result of which is hitting a milestone that triggers a big bonus for them but saddles the company with a bunch of debt and expense that drags down its productivity. That is bad. Versus the same example where the CEO buys another company and the combination results both in them getting a bonus as well as the combined company doing better than the sum of the individual companies. That is good.

So I agree with you that both parties are playing games, the differentiator for me is what is the ratio of benefit to the country vs benefit to the party/individual from the game being played? If that ration is 1:1 or greater I see it as a positive thing rather than a negative thing.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not a stimulus it's loans to prevent a liquidity crisis and the credit markets from freezing up. It was the credit markets in 2008 that nearly killed the world economy. They dwarf the stock market.

Still, given the market was like Meh, seems like nobody thought it was very useful. That said, yeah I see how you are right. Lots of businesses run month to month. When they run out of cash they go bankrupt. Once enough companies do so, the economy takes much longer to recover.

Maybe keeping the market from doing something much worse than "meh" was the point, and this was a success?

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#177
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But if there were ever a time for us not to be partisan and tribal, it's now. You say that like both parties are trying to deny testing and are refusing to provide the social safety net for workers to stay home when they're sick. This is very much not a "both sides" discussion. This is: the GOP needs to stop trying to pretend like nothing is wrong and actually DO SOMETHING to prevent this from becoming an even bigge…

>Ahh, the old cowardly downvote without comment because you don't like the reality of the situation that there is one party that's very much to blame People are probably downvoting silently this time because explaining to you that you're obliviously consuming propaganda is one step deeper into flamewar territory which is unpopular on HN (and against the rules). Case in point? Media reports that bill forcing employers…

>Case in point? Media reports that bill forcing employers to provide sick leave failed to pass because of evil Republicans. What you won't see on the news is the nuance that such a bill can't be passed without possibly bankrupting small businesses.

The bill literally includes the funding to pay for sick leave. That's why it's a FUNDING bill - I think you're confused about who is being mislead by propaganda.

Meanwhile, the GOP is trying to insert language about abortion into the bill because...?

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#178
post #17

Speculation on my part as I still don’t fully grok repo markets and only have a vague sense of how the treasuries market impacts equities but I’ll continue. I see some people saying this should alleviate some of the losses incurred by the recent market crash. I however, don’t see how that is the case. To me this seems like a move from the fed to make sure we don’t enter into a liquidity crisis which doesn’t necessari…

> Speculation on my part as I still don’t fully grok repo markets and only have a vague sense of how the treasuries market impacts equities but I’ll continue.

From my understanding the US treasury market is the most liquid and largest market for any asset in the world. Up until recently these treasuries had a positive real interest rate, so if you are a corporation with large amounts of cash (typically a bank) you don't want to hold this as cash in a banking account but rather you want to hold treasuries and get a small return. If there aren't enough people trading treasuries anymore and liquidity dries up this can have devastating effects on companies because they might hold lots of assets in the form of treasuries but they need to convert them to dollars to pay their employees or suppliers and need to sell treasuries for that. The repo facility of the FED is a buyer (or seller) of last resort that can hand out dollars for treasuries thus ensuring that there's no shortage of dollars.

> On top of this factor, this move by the fed surely will push inflation higher and I would assume production would slow given all the virus affects mentioned above.

I don't think this will push inflation higher. This is not QE (though there is a meme that it is) where the FED buys treasuries (and MBS) outright and holds them until expiry. If a bank sells treasuries to the repo facility then it will have to buy them back until a pre-determined date. So if the repo facility works it will compress the spread in the treasury market and thus reduce funding costs for banks and ensure that enough dollars are around. Right now it seems like lots of companies are hoarding cash and drawing close to the full amount of their credit lines which means banks are short dollars. Because most of these credit lines will probably be used to fund ongoing operations (pay employees, etc.) or bridge a shortfall in revenues they are unlikely to cause companies to invest more or hire more and drive up prices.

Christine Lagarde today announced TLTRO III (https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/implement/omo/tltro/html/inde...) which serves the same purpose. Helping companies and households to survive a shortfall in income. In short, you don't want to have a bunch of companies going bankrupt just because the economy stopped for a couple of months - the bureaucratic costs and resulting uncertainty for consumers would be much too costly.

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#179
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a very disingenuous read of that interview.

Just to note, the full interview transcript is here[1] and the reply to > It comes to your desk. Do you veto it? he replied with > I would veto anything that delays providing the security and the certainty of healthcare being available now. If they got that through in by some miracle or there`s an epiphany that occurred and some miracle occurred that said, OK, it`s passed. Then you got to look at the cost. Unlike on…

On the contrary, reading your side's politicians the way you expect (charitably) and the other side's politicians the way you expect (uncharitably), you end up with the divisions we have now. I'd suggest reading both charitably regarding interpretation, then being cynical regarding whether it'll really happen/whether it's honest.

[edit: (charitably) and (uncharitably), not (charitably) and (charitably)]

Re: Fed to inject $1.5T to prevent ‘unusual disruptions’ in markets

#180
post #69
post #13

As the joke goes, a trillion here a trillion there and pretty soon you're talking about some real money! But in seriousness, the next week is a critical time in the world. I remember sitting in an airport when news of Lehman Brothers collapse was flashing on the TV screens. I'm reminded of that time. We learned later about how Hank Paulson got down on one knee and begged Nancy Pelosi to go along with is plan to save…

>But if there were ever a time for us not to be partisan and tribal, it's now. You say that like both parties are trying to deny testing and are refusing to provide the social safety net for workers to stay home when they're sick. This is very much not a "both sides" discussion. This is: the GOP needs to stop trying to pretend like nothing is wrong and actually DO SOMETHING to prevent this from becoming an even bigge…

Lamar Alexander was not against providing this support. He blocked it based on how it was going to be paid for.

It's very much a partisan issue because the Democrats want companies to foot the bill. The GOP thinks that if Washington DC thinks companies should do something then Washington DC should foot the bill. Neither side disagrees that people should have this support. All the Democrats had to do is introduce the same bill and divert funding from other congressional discretionary spending and the bill would have passed. It could pass today if they made this change.

Honestly, Lamar Alexander is right here. Companies are already going to be hurting financially enough as it is. Making them provide something new and foot the bill is just kicking companies while they are down and just going to worsen the fallout in this recession. Forcing them to fund this will contribute to phenomena like Chapter 11 bankruptcy for some companies and for others it will force them to lay off more staff.

There's no justification for Congress to increase the costs to companies while the Fed simultaneously injects $1.5T. That's just counterproductive when you're trying to help stabilize the economy.

I honestly don't understand why the Democrats are so consistently anti-business in so many things they do. "After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world." (Calvin Coolidge)

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