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Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

forbes.com

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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#131

Post by jaltekruse »

gwbas1c wrote: post #126
jaltekruse wrote: post #48

I still assume it is possible and likely that something like cryptocurrency will eventually become incredibly valuable, but I see that happening only when technical and social hurdles are overcome to make it as widespread and scalable as the current credit card system for everyday transactions. Unfortunately for current cryptocurrencies, they just don't have what it takes to compete with decades of trust to get every…

> I still assume it is possible and likely that something like cryptocurrency will eventually become incredibly valuable Probably, but whatever it is, it won't be Bitcoin and some magic software updates won't make your Bitcoins turn into whatever cryptocurrency-ish thing wins. The other thing to remember is that cash doesn't appreciate in value. (In the US, we typically have 4% inflation every year.) If a cryptocurre…

Absolutely agree, if you can't represent some of your resources in it and have any idea if you'll be able to spend it somewhere near at the value you put in at, there's just no incentive to use it as a means of exchange. Kinda makes tether seem like a good idea if I wasn't so worried it's a ponzi scheme.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#133

Post by sudouser »

iamaelephant wrote: post #40

People still talk about Bitcoin as though it's a real market and not completely manipulated by a handful of key players? Ok then.

exaclty, it is owned by less than 1.000 people, I would bet you can count the key players with one hand.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#134

Post by SkyBelow »

kaikai wrote: post #50
unhashable wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is another misconception. Gold can be held, yes. It also is expensive to verify, transport, and protect. This has proved problematic for holders of the past. A paper system had to be built on top of Gold, which severely diluted the value proposition as gold was confiscated and stockpiled centrally. Practically speaking, very few individuals hold gold and the utility of doing so is limited when you consider how l…

You don't have to transport a heavy metal, instead all you have to do is ensure an electrical grid, fully functional internet access, and a distributed network of other people! I'm not sure that's any easier than carry around metal :P

It isn't, it is more difficult, but it is a different kind of difficult. That is why both have a place, and will continue to do so until a social collapse, at which point only gold will remain. But until such a point, bitcoin exists as sometime harder to trade than gold in some ways and easier in others. It also borrows a bit from fiat currency in that it only has value because we agree to give it value (at least greater than the value of as single cut of cloth/plastic paper). Gold has some level of intrinsic value in both how resistant it is to change, its socially desirable look, and its practical use.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#135

Post by chillwaves »

nonamenoslogan wrote: post #132

GASP you mean internet-only money I can't readily/easily/conveniently/privately spend isn't worth as much as you told me it was when I bought it? I thought we were going to the moon, gentlemen?

Please do not comment as if this were Reddit.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#136

Post by sparkie »

unhashable wrote: post #112
glofish wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for me, it not so unthinkable that you could have intermittent access to the internet (out days at a time), or that some parts of the internet would not be accessible for extended periods of time for you it seems that must equate the end of the world where it doesn't matter anyway.

This is an interesting scenario worth thinking through. If Bitcoin is forced to go split-brain temporarily, the network could coordinate to rejoin after the fact. Or, it could stay split in two. Regardless, infighting over which network was “the real Bitcoin” would ensue. See Bitcoin Cash and friends.

A "rejoin" isn't really possible. People who spent money on the "wrong" chain will simply have to live with the fact that their money is lost on the "right" chain, although it will probably not be an overnight thing. The two forks could exist for a long time after the split simultaneously, and many merchants may accept either form of payment. There will even be arbitrage between the two chains as profit can be made.

Ultimately, one chain will come to dominate the other, and the ones who fight hardest for it to be their chain will probably find they're on the wrong one. That's because people on the right chain will not need to fight about it. They'll just be running their software as they've been doing till now, and it will pick the correct chain for them. The ones screaming "you need to download a new client" will proceed in destroying their own reputations.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#137

Post by rkagerer »

nostrademons wrote: post #55
glofish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bitcoin is not really "there" the same way as gold is. The whole point of gold is that it is a tangible asset. You can hold gold in your pocket or under your mattress and it costs nothing to store it. You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes. Basically, you are depending on a resource in faraway lands to let you "own" what y…

Bitcoin is a call option on governments going down but the Internet staying up. Gold is a call option on everything going down and society reverting to how things were done in the 1600s. They reflect different threat models. If you believe that governments will get swept away by the global market-state, Bitcoin is your asset. If you believe that society will crumble and we'll be back to trading with other villages, g…

I like your thought provoking analogy.

But why would a modern apocalypse look identical to the 1600's? I think some tidbits of technologies we've gained since then would be scrapped together by industrious survivors.

What was used for "currency" in prior dark ages before the 1600's? I'm guessing it didn't pan out well for the guy who stockpiled cowrie shells in between.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#138

Post by Spellman »

nostrademons wrote: post #55
glofish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bitcoin is not really "there" the same way as gold is. The whole point of gold is that it is a tangible asset. You can hold gold in your pocket or under your mattress and it costs nothing to store it. You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes. Basically, you are depending on a resource in faraway lands to let you "own" what y…

Bitcoin is a call option on governments going down but the Internet staying up. Gold is a call option on everything going down and society reverting to how things were done in the 1600s. They reflect different threat models. If you believe that governments will get swept away by the global market-state, Bitcoin is your asset. If you believe that society will crumble and we'll be back to trading with other villages, g…

Bullets might fare better than gold in the latter scenario

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#139

Post by sparkie »

Barrin92 wrote: post #109
lawn wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not the definition of a currency. Money has different functions, where store of value, unit of account and medium of exchange are the popular ones. And they have different properties, such as acceptable, fungible, durable and divisible and others (properties also differ.) The big point is that these are subjective, and exists on a scale, and they vary from community to community. Cigarettes can be consider…

>so my statement still holds. No, it doesn't because not every form of belief is equally justified. If you believe your currency has value because the Aztec god of fertility has bestowed value upon it then you'll have a problem when you figure it that not everyone agrees. The American government and the American economy underpinning the dollar however represent vital goods and services as well as security provided an…

> The American government and the American economy underpinning the dollar however represent vital goods and services as well as security provided and have an army to back it up so the chance that it magically loses all its value is just about nil.

It doesn't need to lose all of its value at once. It just needs to lose some value frequently enough that some people decide "hold on a minute, this is an unjust tax I'm facing on my savings," and will look for an alternative where they are not taxed so heavily.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#140

Post by nonamenoslogan »

chillwaves wrote: post #135
nonamenoslogan wrote: post #132

GASP you mean internet-only money I can't readily/easily/conveniently/privately spend isn't worth as much as you told me it was when I bought it? I thought we were going to the moon, gentlemen?

Please do not comment as if this were Reddit.

Thank you, I hadn't realized you were appointed the comment police. For the record--I usually reserve comments with detailed technical jargon and buzzwords specifically for Reddit; I just don't follow any magic-internet-money sub-reddits.
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