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Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

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431–440 of 442 posts

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#431
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, has anyone tried banding a group of startups together until they have several thousand employees, then buy insurance as a bloc? Another idea I've kicked around: Create a sort-of incubator where, on paper, all of the startup founders and employees are employees of the incubator group. Then the incubator can handle the whole mess of both insurance and income taxes. (Bonus: Since the "incubator" now has a ton…

I'm kinda wondering if YCombinator or one of the other incubators could do something like that. For me, a major reason why I'm not doing a startup now is that I'm not sure I could get health insurance. My last startup was done in Massachusetts when I was 25, so it was no problem to get an individual high-deductible policy. I'm not sure I could do the same thing in California, now that I'm pushing 30.

I'm in the same exact boat at 29. As a result, I'm currently looking for partners who are under 26 and still covered by their parent's health insurance. The last thing I need my precious capital going towards is a booboo. It means I have one less thing to worry about. I've set aside monies just to cover my own.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#432
If you want to revolutionize medicine, you need to revolutionize how everyone in medicine is paid.

The revolutionary technology already exists: telemedicine (TM) through live video conferencing, store & forward of image data for dermatology, radiology, or ophthalmology, home health monitoring, wearable monitoring systems, online health management systems, personal health records, genome sequencing, its all here! So what's the problem? Doctors can't get paid for any of this.

Despite common belief, doctors don't get paid that much, particularly doctors that work in the public setting and must deal with Medicare (and in California, MediCal) patients. If a neurologist in San Francisco sees a Medicare patient in Los Angeles through video conferencing they can't bill Medicare because LA is not a non-Metropolitan Statistical Area. No doctor wants to deal with dismal MediCal rates. There are little to no codes to bill for home-based monitoring, and if even those exist, there is no code for a specialist to diagnose remotely. We have 30 years of academic literature praising TM. So who's holding everything up?

We need a new insurance company that focuses on TM and monitoring technologies from the start to usher in what everyone and their mom has been describing as "preventive" healthcare. Sure, we'll still need traditional methods for surgeries and catastrophic events, but I'd pay out of pocket to be able to forward an image of a rash to a dermatologist or the back of my throat to my physician any day. Fast, instant, convenient.

Someone in the comments mentioned Qliance, which looks promising. I'm surprised someone in SV hasn't taken advantage of something similar there. Geeks love to be on the cutting edge, why not be the cutting edge medical patient?

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#433
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. I don't have to buy a smart phone, for example. I can live a wonderfully productive life with a normal cell phone. This means the price we see for a smart phone tracks very close to its value. You cannot do without health care. If you get sick you will pay any and every price to get well. If you die, your money is worthless anyway. A market you cannot opt out of is inelastic and normal free market forces wo…

You cannot do without food either, but food markets are pretty elastic because you can do without food from any particular seller . If there's a variety of healthcare providers of reasonable quality then the usual market mechanisms can work. Which isn't to say either (1) that they actually do work well in, say, the USA, or (2) that some less free-market-based system mightn't work better. (I'm in the UK; the situation…

An individual's need for food is generally stable, predictable, and bounded (eg, 2500 calories/day). An individual's need for health care is unpredictable and unbounded, meaning that you can be financially ruined by it in a sudden and catastrophic way. Having a variety of providers doesn't address this crucial difference.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"More importantly, the 'price fixing' approach to health insurance simply isn't going to happen in the US." Why wouldn't it? Would there be riots in the streets? Roving gangs of healthcare-affiliated hooligans throwing rocks, burning patient effigies? Doctors lining up to leave the country en masse for a freer medical marketplace or just throwing dirt in the eye of medicine to go be a quant trader at a hedge fund? Th…

No, there won't be riots in the streets, because it would take amendments to the Constitution to institute price-fixed health care. Clinton's wildest single-payer fantasy (which, coincidentally, is one of my wild fantasies) would be easier to accomplish, and it, too, is D.O.A. My objection to your point is twofold: (1) It is total wishful thinking. (2) It's wishful thinking in the face of pragmatic solutions that cou…

...it would take amendments to the Constitution to institute price-fixed health care.

Government-dictated pricing wouldn't necessarily violate the Constitution, it's been done several times throughout American history.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You went to the wrong doctor. When I get my bills for office visits, the rate is something like $300 on average (including lab tests). My insurance company then negotiates that down to something like $75, and then I pay the $10 co-pay. Now, all these numbers could be made up, but $300 seems about right for a doctor's visit when you consider how expensive it is to run a medical practice. It's not something I'd want to…

It's very difficult to price-shop, though, because unlike in most normal businesses, nobody seems to publish price lists, and they aren't very forthcoming giving quotes over the phone, either. So it's not too uncommon to end up with something absurd more or less by chance, especially if it's urgent to see a doctor. Unless I've totally missed it, there's certainly no hipmunk for medicine, where I can put in that I wan…

> Unless I've totally missed it, there's certainly no hipmunk for medicine,

note to self: build a startup that's HipMunk for medicine

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#436
post #32

I would have died at the age of 19 if it weren't for the help of the UK's National Health Service. My parents and I didn't have to worry about hospital bills, future insurance issues, being tied to a job, any of that crap. Just get some rest, get better, go out there and be productive again. The American system looks like a horrible joke from over here. I just can't understand any of it.

"I just can't understand any of it." Neither can those of us who live here. I mean, I can kind of understand the series of historical accidents of how we got here. What I can't understand are the politicians promising to fight tooth and nail to roll back the very minor reforms just enacted, and all of the people who enthusiastically just voted them into office last election, based on that platform.

> What I can't understand are the politicians promising to fight tooth and nail to roll back the very minor reforms just enacted, and all of the people who enthusiastically just voted them into office last election, based on that platform.

It's the Republican Party. They serve a certain set of masters. This set of masters is not the everyday Joe. This should be old news. Unfortunately it is not. And yes some folks vote for them that probably should not, but we have a sort of Bell Curve of intelligence and education out there -- though everyone's vote counts exactly the same -- combined with a variety of different levels of empathy for others, combined with a propaganda-rich media environment. This is what happens under those conditions. Ideally, we want to change these underlying conditions.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a degree in economics then you should know very well that health care can not function properly in a laissez faire market. Customers cannot simply "opt out" of health care.

I've not said anything about what I believe in this area (certainly not in this section of the thread), I've merely questioned your use of the term "market elasticity" and what exactly you mean by it.

You're just trying to get me into a semantics battle so you can find some slight difference in my understanding of a word and the text book definition. What is the point of such conversations? Do you dispute that health care cannot function properly in a laissez faire system for the reasons I have mentioned so far?

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not said anything about what I believe in this area (certainly not in this section of the thread), I've merely questioned your use of the term "market elasticity" and what exactly you mean by it.

You're just trying to get me into a semantics battle so you can find some slight difference in my understanding of a word and the text book definition. What is the point of such conversations? Do you dispute that health care cannot function properly in a laissez faire system for the reasons I have mentioned so far?

The point of such discussion is about respect.

You pulled someone up for not knowing what they were talking about ("For someone who puts so much faith in free markets you don't appear to understand how they work. In your studies, look up "market elasticity" for a clue."), when it seems the same accusation could be levelled at you.

But, I never really meant it to become a big deal so I apologise for being picky and I'll move on to answering your question.

Broadly I agree with you but I think it's slightly more complex than that a straight forward "it doesn't work" and for me the issue is how you factor in the failures which in healthcare tend to result in injury or death. For instance, would a law covering corporate homicide (that is an organisation causing the death of someone in the course of their work due to incompetence or carelessness) count as market regulation? Or even manslaughter if a doctor acting alone did the same? Would that be regulation?

Because of this I think any civilized society wouldn't accept the possibility of severe injury or death without significant consequence, so even if it might work in theory (more below), we'll never know in practice as it would never be allowed to come about.

More generally though my view is that markets of any sort only work well when you've got a few factors at play:

(1) the deals and decisions are being made directly by those they impact - that is the patients so the deal genuinely reflects the will and interest of the patients (as opposed to them being one step removed as with insurance companies where their interests muddy things)

(2) the system has to be such that there is a financial consequence to the patient of the decision they make (that is they see the benefit of getting a deal which is good value as well as good medicine otherwise why would they look for value)

(3) there has to be as close to perfect information as possible to allow these decisions to be made on a true and fair basis - and when you look at the PR machines we see today exist, you've got to think that's not going to happen without regulation.

My issue is I don't see how you'd consistently get those factors without regulation. I couldn't say it's impossible but it certainly seems highly improbable, certainly in the culture we have now (point 3 being the one I can't ever see coming about without enforcement).

As an aside - I live in the UK where we have nationalised healthcare and it's frankly great. The market reforms over here terrify me because they're ideologically driven by people who seem to want to drive us towards an American system so in theory while I'm not intrinsically against the market playing a greater role in health provision, in practice I'll tend to fight it on the grounds that it looks like they're going to the whole thing up a treat.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very difficult to price-shop, though, because unlike in most normal businesses, nobody seems to publish price lists, and they aren't very forthcoming giving quotes over the phone, either. So it's not too uncommon to end up with something absurd more or less by chance, especially if it's urgent to see a doctor. Unless I've totally missed it, there's certainly no hipmunk for medicine, where I can put in that I wan…

> Unless I've totally missed it, there's certainly no hipmunk for medicine, note to self: build a startup that's HipMunk for medicine

All you need is a mascot and boom ;)

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless I've totally missed it, there's certainly no hipmunk for medicine, note to self: build a startup that's HipMunk for medicine

All you need is a mascot and boom ;)

exactly. and my axe! :)
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