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Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

forbes.com

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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#91

Post by bb88 »

unhashable wrote: post #33
glofish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bitcoin is not really "there" the same way as gold is. The whole point of gold is that it is a tangible asset. You can hold gold in your pocket or under your mattress and it costs nothing to store it. You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes. Basically, you are depending on a resource in faraway lands to let you "own" what y…

This is another misconception. Gold can be held, yes. It also is expensive to verify, transport, and protect. This has proved problematic for holders of the past. A paper system had to be built on top of Gold, which severely diluted the value proposition as gold was confiscated and stockpiled centrally. Practically speaking, very few individuals hold gold and the utility of doing so is limited when you consider how l…

This is another misconception:

>Bitcoin let’s you store $1T USD of dollars in your head, transport it anywhere in the world, and there’s not a single thing anyone else can do about it.

It's amazing how easy gray matter cryptography can be broken using a cheap $5 wrench.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#92

Post by unhashable »

bb88 wrote: post #91
unhashable wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is another misconception. Gold can be held, yes. It also is expensive to verify, transport, and protect. This has proved problematic for holders of the past. A paper system had to be built on top of Gold, which severely diluted the value proposition as gold was confiscated and stockpiled centrally. Practically speaking, very few individuals hold gold and the utility of doing so is limited when you consider how l…

This is another misconception: >Bitcoin let’s you store $1T USD of dollars in your head, transport it anywhere in the world, and there’s not a single thing anyone else can do about it. It's amazing how easy gray matter cryptography can be broken using a cheap $5 wrench.

Love that meme: https://www.xkcd.com/538/

So true too. At the end of the day, digital security must be reinforced with physical security and good opsec.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#93

Post by Barrin92 »

lawn wrote: post #79
glofish wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because bitcoin is not money, it is an asset, it is a property that can be traded for money but its value fluctuates and is not tied to anything other than people's perceived future value in it (which can be valuable, don't get me wrong there, all I am saying that it will change all the time)

What should be considered money is subjective and the value of all money comes from people's perceived future value in it. Even gold coins and dollar notes.

there's a fairly objective definition of a currency. it's a store of value and it's a means of transaction. Bitcoin is not really a means of transaction except for illegal ones where people are willing to accept the high fees.

Also, there is a clear difference in underlying value. Bitcoins value is entirely speculative. The US dollars value is guaranteed by the US government, which in turn is underpinned by real economic assets of the American economy and its firms and so on. Which are very much real and not imaginary.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#94

Post by glofish »

unhashable wrote: post #72
kaikai wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to transport a heavy metal, instead all you have to do is ensure an electrical grid, fully functional internet access, and a distributed network of other people! I'm not sure that's any easier than carry around metal :P

I see: you’re concerned with a future where the concept of an internet ceases to exist? I’m afraid money will be the least of our problems then.

for me, it not so unthinkable that you could have intermittent access to the internet (out days at a time), or that some parts of the internet would not be accessible for extended periods of time

for you it seems that must equate the end of the world where it doesn't matter anyway.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#95

Post by [deleted] »

bb88 wrote: post #91
unhashable wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is another misconception. Gold can be held, yes. It also is expensive to verify, transport, and protect. This has proved problematic for holders of the past. A paper system had to be built on top of Gold, which severely diluted the value proposition as gold was confiscated and stockpiled centrally. Practically speaking, very few individuals hold gold and the utility of doing so is limited when you consider how l…

This is another misconception: >Bitcoin let’s you store $1T USD of dollars in your head, transport it anywhere in the world, and there’s not a single thing anyone else can do about it. It's amazing how easy gray matter cryptography can be broken using a cheap $5 wrench.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#96

Post by unhashable »

gchokov wrote: post #83
unhashable wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see: you’re concerned with a future where the concept of an internet ceases to exist? I’m afraid money will be the least of our problems then.

It's already happening with Russia and China having their own networks.

Absolute financial control of citizens is a hell on earth type of dystopia we must resist, thwart, and avoid at all costs.

We must not go silently into that dark night.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#97

Post by Infinitesimus »

im3w1l wrote: post #86
unhashable wrote: post #10

It's a common misconception that Bitcoin is a safe haven. It's not. Not even Gold is a safe haven during a liquidity crisis. In sharp downturns, cash is king. Think of Bitcoin and Gold as call options on the entire global monetary system. If Govs become insolvent, Bitcoin and Gold is there. If the masses lose faith in central banks, Bitcoin and Gold is there. If central banks debase currencies too quickly, Bitcoin an…

Why is there a liquidity crisis?

Watch the Fed's actions: (eg: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/12/fed-to-pump-more-than-500-bi... )

The Fed has been very active in repo markets since last fall and has aggressively ramped up operations. As an armchair fake-economist, that sort of thing signals that banks are reducing loans between themselves because they don't want to be low on cash when stuff hits the fan. Reducing in available loans -> pretty high interest rates -> Fed stepping in to float the cash and buy some bonds.

Perhaps someone closer to the money will chime in here with corrections/details but this smells like the big banks expect unpleasant times ahead (remember this started before Covid19)

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#98

Post by krapp »

klntsky wrote: post #89
krapp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only to anarcho-capitalists and speculators. Most people don't mistrust regulated banking enough that a volatile, unregulated black market economy looks attractive, even in a crisis.

> even in a crisis A crisis can just destroy regulated banking.

Sure. Given sufficient scale, a crisis can destroy anything, including crypto.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#99

Post by ppf »

darawk wrote: post #46
vidanay wrote: post #7

Wait...aren't crypto currencies supposed to be the favored monetary instrument during times of crises?

It depends on the nature of the crisis. In a monetary crisis, yes, probably. But this is a bit different than that.

If there is any correlation between current events and bitcoin price, then we have both a monetary and an existential crisis happening. What other crises would bitcoin be useful in?

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#100

Post by unhashable »

duskwuff wrote: post #82
glofish wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is another misconception. Care to elaborate on what my misconception was? I never said that bitcoin is not an interesting concept on its own. Just that is ain't got what most people think or need when they talk about gold or money. Especially not in time of economic distress. Can you use bitcoin without the internet? Can you use bitcoin without someone else mining and being allowed to connect to these entities…

> Can you use bitcoin without the internet? Can you use bitcoin without someone else mining and being allowed to connect to these entities? The answer to both is, simply, "no". All cryptocurrencies (not just Bitcoin) are incredibly reliant on the availability of unrestricted communications between all participating parties, including miners. Where those communications break down, the cryptocurrency is likely to becom…

This is true.

Bitcoin is more of bet that Keynesian monetary policy fails. It doesn’t hedge for Armageddon.

Planning for a collapse of world order involves small coins, farmland, prepping pantries, home schooling, and firearms.

Hey, I’m all for individual sovereignty!

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