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Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#41
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bitcoin is not really "there" the same way as gold is. The whole point of gold is that it is a tangible asset. You can hold gold in your pocket or under your mattress and it costs nothing to store it. You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes. Basically, you are depending on a resource in faraway lands to let you "own" what y…

This is another misconception. Gold can be held, yes. It also is expensive to verify, transport, and protect. This has proved problematic for holders of the past. A paper system had to be built on top of Gold, which severely diluted the value proposition as gold was confiscated and stockpiled centrally. Practically speaking, very few individuals hold gold and the utility of doing so is limited when you consider how l…

> You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes.

Nothing you said addressed this.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is cash king?

Its value is not suddenly dropping as the same rate as the other investments. You can (hopefully) buy food with it. (But being good to your family, having low or no debt and some prudent food storage are also wise, among other things our church has counseled us for a long time). (Edit: and savings "for a rainy day".) (Edit: This is considering the definition of "cash" to be not just paper in your hand, but as a regul…

Cash was not king during periods of hyperinflation in Germany (30s), Venezuela (ongoing), and many more. It is roughly as common as a stock market crash.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#43
I have made a large amount of money trading cryptocurrency over the years. This correlation is spurious at best. These stories are so wrong it is hilarious. The price action of crypto is unlike any other market. What we have seen over the last month is massive legs down caused by whales flooding the market at specific times. These bart patterns are so obvious I can't believe people can't draw these incredibly easy to see conclusions. Crypto is pure manipulation. This coronavirus panic happens to coincide with a period right before the block reward halving where it is in the interest of miners to drop the price as much as possible as to make the mining operations of competitors infeasible leaving them with a larger slice of the mining pool.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#44
post #42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its value is not suddenly dropping as the same rate as the other investments. You can (hopefully) buy food with it. (But being good to your family, having low or no debt and some prudent food storage are also wise, among other things our church has counseled us for a long time). (Edit: and savings "for a rainy day".) (Edit: This is considering the definition of "cash" to be not just paper in your hand, but as a regul…

Cash was not king during periods of hyperinflation in Germany (30s), Venezuela (ongoing), and many more. It is roughly as common as a stock market crash.

Good point. To help make such decisions, maybe one could also try to gauge the overall level of honesty, competence, and responsibility (edit: and strength given trends) of the sponsoring entity. (I have been in USD and varied bonds rather than stocks for a while now, partly due to general debt and overconfidence levels, and plan to revisit things, around August after current trends play out more.)

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#45
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is cash king?

Its value is not suddenly dropping as the same rate as the other investments. You can (hopefully) buy food with it. (But being good to your family, having low or no debt and some prudent food storage are also wise, among other things our church has counseled us for a long time). (Edit: and savings "for a rainy day".) (Edit: This is considering the definition of "cash" to be not just paper in your hand, but as a regul…

Depends on the crisis and what you consider "currency". Hyperinflation is also a crisis.

More generally, in times where people would rather have useful things like food, tools, and gas than pieces of paper you'll be screwed if cash is all you have - because there's going to be one hell of a price hike. Even more so because economic output is likely to go down.

Then in case the crisis gets really bad it'll turn out you can't eat cash. Nobody is going to hand over food or other useful things in exchange for a few bits of paper with questionable value.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#46
post #7

Wait...aren't crypto currencies supposed to be the favored monetary instrument during times of crises?

It depends on the nature of the crisis. In a monetary crisis, yes, probably. But this is a bit different than that.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#47
post #42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its value is not suddenly dropping as the same rate as the other investments. You can (hopefully) buy food with it. (But being good to your family, having low or no debt and some prudent food storage are also wise, among other things our church has counseled us for a long time). (Edit: and savings "for a rainy day".) (Edit: This is considering the definition of "cash" to be not just paper in your hand, but as a regul…

Cash was not king during periods of hyperinflation in Germany (30s), Venezuela (ongoing), and many more. It is roughly as common as a stock market crash.

You’re thinking of the early 1920s for Germany, during the Weimar republic.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#48
I still assume it is possible and likely that something like cryptocurrency will eventually become incredibly valuable, but I see that happening only when technical and social hurdles are overcome to make it as widespread and scalable as the current credit card system for everyday transactions. Unfortunately for current cryptocurrencies, they just don't have what it takes to compete with decades of trust to get everyone to put their daily spending money in them, that is what will make a future system valuable. The current role they play as a speculative investment seems quite silly to me, literally they only thing they are good for is transactions, if you can't do that effectively I don't see value in the tokens at all.

Imagine if someone started a stock exchange and listed a single stock, their own, the stock for the exchange itself, and no one else's. While you can buy some things with bitcoin or ethereum, it's nowhere near widespread, so that really seems to be effectively what it functions as for now, which looks very bizarre on its face. Unfortunately for the people who do want to get rich, if there is an eventual winner in crypto, their rise will probably look something like what we see now, limited buy in from speculators followed by some inflection point, so it's entirely possible buying this dip of ethereum or some other coin might be the right thing, but I'm just not sure any of them are ready yet. Even with SegWit and other stuff happening in bitcoin, it just isn't clear to me that becoming a cash or credit card replacement system is even the goal anymore, which seems like they are just riding on their first mover advantage to prop up the value more than anything at this point.

Note: reposting this from the stock trading halt discussion after its parent appears to have been deleted.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#49
post #3

I have to say, the crypto market's strong ties to traditional finance in this crash surprise me. I understand selling off stock because of expected corporate losses, I don't understand mass conversions to FIAT especially when "print more money" seems to be the fed's response to this.

The money that they are injecting is only going to be a momentary stopgap against the coming credit collapse.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#50
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bitcoin is not really "there" the same way as gold is. The whole point of gold is that it is a tangible asset. You can hold gold in your pocket or under your mattress and it costs nothing to store it. You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes. Basically, you are depending on a resource in faraway lands to let you "own" what y…

This is another misconception. Gold can be held, yes. It also is expensive to verify, transport, and protect. This has proved problematic for holders of the past. A paper system had to be built on top of Gold, which severely diluted the value proposition as gold was confiscated and stockpiled centrally. Practically speaking, very few individuals hold gold and the utility of doing so is limited when you consider how l…

You don't have to transport a heavy metal, instead all you have to do is ensure an electrical grid, fully functional internet access, and a distributed network of other people! I'm not sure that's any easier than carry around metal :P
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