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Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

forbes.com

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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#31

Post by [deleted] »

glofish wrote: post #22
unhashable wrote: post #10

It's a common misconception that Bitcoin is a safe haven. It's not. Not even Gold is a safe haven during a liquidity crisis. In sharp downturns, cash is king. Think of Bitcoin and Gold as call options on the entire global monetary system. If Govs become insolvent, Bitcoin and Gold is there. If the masses lose faith in central banks, Bitcoin and Gold is there. If central banks debase currencies too quickly, Bitcoin an…

bitcoin is not really "there" the same way as gold is. The whole point of gold is that it is a tangible asset. You can hold gold in your pocket or under your mattress and it costs nothing to store it. You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes. Basically, you are depending on a resource in faraway lands to let you "own" what y…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#32

Post by wgjordan »

zionic wrote: post #16
ErikAugust wrote: post #11

One of the supposed benefits of holding cryptocurrency that has been peddled is that it is a strong hedge against a down turn in traditional securities. Here we have a new, real data point to the contrary.

I still think this is true in a "traditional" bear market where companies are doing poorly. I don't think is applies when the entire market is panic selling to acquire supplies.

This is the first bear market (drop of 20% from a recent peak in broad-based index) Bitcoin or the crypto-currency market has ever seen, 'traditional' or not, so it's really uncharted territory.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#33

Post by unhashable »

glofish wrote: post #22
unhashable wrote: post #10

It's a common misconception that Bitcoin is a safe haven. It's not. Not even Gold is a safe haven during a liquidity crisis. In sharp downturns, cash is king. Think of Bitcoin and Gold as call options on the entire global monetary system. If Govs become insolvent, Bitcoin and Gold is there. If the masses lose faith in central banks, Bitcoin and Gold is there. If central banks debase currencies too quickly, Bitcoin an…

bitcoin is not really "there" the same way as gold is. The whole point of gold is that it is a tangible asset. You can hold gold in your pocket or under your mattress and it costs nothing to store it. You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes. Basically, you are depending on a resource in faraway lands to let you "own" what y…

This is another misconception.

Gold can be held, yes. It also is expensive to verify, transport, and protect. This has proved problematic for holders of the past. A paper system had to be built on top of Gold, which severely diluted the value proposition as gold was confiscated and stockpiled centrally. Practically speaking, very few individuals hold gold and the utility of doing so is limited when you consider how liquidity in the gold market functions.

Bitcoin is a different beast. You hold the cryptographic keys (like a password) which let you move Bitcoin to someone else’s address (under their password). You don’t trust anyone: Bitcoin is verified by math, not humans. It is tangible in the same way that owning google.com is tangible (and unarguably valuable). Bits and bytes exist on a global network and only you can move them.

When compared to Gold, Bitcoin is interesting because it is highly transportable, easily divisible, and censorship resistant. Consider this: Bitcoin let’s you store $1T USD of dollars in your head, transport it anywhere in the world, and there’s not a single thing anyone else can do about it.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#34

Post by LargeWu »

wiredfool wrote: post #15
simonswords82 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not as much as cold hard cash.

I think Toilet Paper is the preferred currency now.

I know your comment is, at least somewhat, in jest, but it's kind of true.

My wife's boss has been spending a good bit of his workdays lately tracking and buying gold. But not buying physical gold. Just buying a promise from some agent that he owns some gold. Of course, that's not going to do him any good in a crisis; you can't eat gold, you can't drink it, pretty sure you can't wipe your ass with it. You can only trade it. And when resources become scarce, utility becomes far more important than value. And gold certificates, or whatever, will become even less desirable.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#35

Post by Ididntdothis »

unhashable wrote: post #33
glofish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bitcoin is not really "there" the same way as gold is. The whole point of gold is that it is a tangible asset. You can hold gold in your pocket or under your mattress and it costs nothing to store it. You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes. Basically, you are depending on a resource in faraway lands to let you "own" what y…

This is another misconception. Gold can be held, yes. It also is expensive to verify, transport, and protect. This has proved problematic for holders of the past. A paper system had to be built on top of Gold, which severely diluted the value proposition as gold was confiscated and stockpiled centrally. Practically speaking, very few individuals hold gold and the utility of doing so is limited when you consider how l…

“Bitcoin let’s you store $1T USD of dollars in your head, transport it anywhere in the world, and there’s not a single thing anyone else can do about it.”

As of now the $1T can also disappear and nobody will even notice.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#36

Post by Ididntdothis »

ErikAugust wrote: post #11

One of the supposed benefits of holding cryptocurrency that has been peddled is that it is a strong hedge against a down turn in traditional securities. Here we have a new, real data point to the contrary.

Since almost nobody is using Bitcoin to pay for things it’s just a giant speculative thing. It’s not a safe haven.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#38

Post by Finnucane »

basejumping wrote: post #25
unhashable wrote: post #10

It's a common misconception that Bitcoin is a safe haven. It's not. Not even Gold is a safe haven during a liquidity crisis. In sharp downturns, cash is king. Think of Bitcoin and Gold as call options on the entire global monetary system. If Govs become insolvent, Bitcoin and Gold is there. If the masses lose faith in central banks, Bitcoin and Gold is there. If central banks debase currencies too quickly, Bitcoin an…

Why is cash king?

Because in a deflationary debt crisis that is what you are going to need to pay your creditors. No substitutes will be accepted.

Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices have fallen sharply over the last few days

#39

Post by glofish »

unhashable wrote: post #33
glofish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bitcoin is not really "there" the same way as gold is. The whole point of gold is that it is a tangible asset. You can hold gold in your pocket or under your mattress and it costs nothing to store it. You can't prove you have bitcoin if you don't have internet access for example. You can't have bitcoin if miners don't run their nodes. Basically, you are depending on a resource in faraway lands to let you "own" what y…

This is another misconception. Gold can be held, yes. It also is expensive to verify, transport, and protect. This has proved problematic for holders of the past. A paper system had to be built on top of Gold, which severely diluted the value proposition as gold was confiscated and stockpiled centrally. Practically speaking, very few individuals hold gold and the utility of doing so is limited when you consider how l…

> This is another misconception.

Care to elaborate on what my misconception was? I never said that bitcoin is not an interesting concept on its own. Just that is ain't got what most people think or need when they talk about gold or money. Especially not in time of economic distress.

Can you use bitcoin without the internet? Can you use bitcoin without someone else mining and being allowed to connect to these entities?

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