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U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

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Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#831

Post by collyw »

Frost1x wrote: post #109
unlinked_dll wrote: post #30

Regardless of the ability of people to travel to the UK or Canada and get here (which people have done for a long time with other nations we don't take kindly to) it's absolutely going to reduce the number of people who will travel across the pond. Which is the goal, reduce infection rates. My concern is how economies are going to respond to the US being cut off from Continental ports for a month, which as far as I c…

>Which is the goal, reduce infection rates. Based on the localized infection cases I see across the US and have been watching as well as the characteristics of the virus (life outside host/on surfaces, in air, the degree of asymptomatic transference, etc.), it's well beyond containment IMHO. Travel isn't going to do too much to reduce infection rates alone. We need significant cultural changes to reduce infection rat…

As someone posted on FB, the infection rate spikes a lot more with no measures, and flattens with more preventative measures. So while the same number of people may be infected overall, it lessens stress on the healthcare system when it is more spread out.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#832

Post by Alex3917 »

Symbiote wrote: post #677
Alex3917 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can anyone comment on supply chains that rely on Europe to source goods? You know all of the stuff that's made in China? The machines that make that stuff are made in Europe. Well, not literally the ones that make the stuff in China, but the ones that US companies would buy if they were trying to manufacture more stuff domestically to replace the stuff they can no longer buy from China.

I think yes, literally, European machinery exported to China. It's a massive export sector for the EU (€127bn), and a chunk of that is to China, but the easily-available statistics lump machinery and vehicles, so I don't have a source.

China has started making some of their own machinery in the last 30 years. The quality generally isn't going to be as good as machinery coming from a company that's been making the same thing for 300 years, albeit for them using it internally that doesn't matter as much when the person who designed the machine is right there and can trouble shoot it in person.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#833

Post by awayfromhomenow »

alexilliamson wrote: post #794
rsj_hn wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2 cents. All reductions in (non-essential) travel are good in a pandemic. That doesn't mean it's sufficient, but it's something positive. I think we would all like to see stronger social distancing rules domestically (in the US), but here the US has a problem as it granted the President broad discretionary powers to suspend international travel but not domestic gatherings, which can't be banned via executive order…

Something I've never been clear on... what can and can't be banned through executive order?

executive orders are SUPPOSED to only be directives to the Executive Branch on how to conduct operations. Unfortunately this power has been abused by past Presidents. Executive Orders have no force of law.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#834

Post by chinesempire »

majewsky wrote: post #769
chinesempire wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but technically both are - North of the Mediterranean sea - West of the Ural mountains - no land route to America

Anything east of the Ural mountains is also west of the Ural mountains if you travel far enough. :)

that's why we have invented the concept of "greater distance" :)

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#835

Post by sbmassey »

slg wrote: post #275
tunesmith wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe the 40-70% number. Looking it up, this underscores just how horribly the internet is set up to have these kinds of conversations. If you backsource it, you discover he said "there's a chance" it will hit 40-70%, and then only if no countermeasures are taken. That's very different than what is represented in the cbs transcript. I saw another seemingly reputable estimate today - some disease person on J…

I can't pretend to be an expert on this. All I can do is defer to experts, look at the numbers as they currently stand, and do some simplistic math. I also don't have the skills to vet the various experts, but I can tell you I have more faith in the vetting process of places like CBS News, BBC, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, and the German government than I do Joe Rogan.

Rogan was interviewing Michael Osterholm, who seems to be of good reputation.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#836

Post by chinesempire »

mcv wrote: post #761
chinesempire wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but technically both are - North of the Mediterranean sea - West of the Ural mountains - no land route to America

It might include lots of Canadian islands, though. Maybe specify that it needs to be on or east of the mid-Atlantic ridge as well.

If we talk about "mass of land" - and wanna split hairs :) - it does not include the ocean I guess.

Remember that UK is very close to continental Europe

Strait of Dover is just 33 km wide.

One could almost swim from one side to the other.

And there's a tunnel connecting the two, you can already go by train from France to UK.

Ireland and UK are even closer than that (about 20kms)

And they are all the same "mass of land" as in tectonic plate.

Iceland for example cannot entirely be considered Europe, the Eurasian plate cut it exactly in a half.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#837

Post by david927 »

jacquesm wrote: post #813
unlinked_dll wrote: post #30

Regardless of the ability of people to travel to the UK or Canada and get here (which people have done for a long time with other nations we don't take kindly to) it's absolutely going to reduce the number of people who will travel across the pond. Which is the goal, reduce infection rates. My concern is how economies are going to respond to the US being cut off from Continental ports for a month, which as far as I c…

The President, for want of a better term is an idiot. When there is plenty of time to act he does nothing, and when the crisis is in full swing he makes symbolic gestures that have but one goal: to increase his chances of re-election. This has absolutely nothing to do with public health.

I couldn't agree more. In the next week, we'll see flights canceled to and from most countries in Europe anyway, so this is a cheap attempt to point the finger at Europe, and away at this administration.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#838

Post by gpm »

anigbrowl wrote: post #307
BryantD wrote: post #152

Important updates: a) This does not apply to US citizens or their family members[1]. b) This does not apply to cargo[2]. It appears that the President misspoke regarding point 2. [1] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting... . [2] https://twitter.com/AnaSwanson/status/1237921160500830208

Misspoke? It was a prepared statement read off a teleprompter. Please don't excuse it like a slip of the tongue.

Here is the paragraph from the transcript (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-pres...)

> There will be exemptions for Americans who have undergone appropriate screenings, and these prohibitions will not only apply to the tremendous amount of trade and cargo, but various other things as we get approval. Anything coming from Europe to the United States is what we are discussing. These restrictions will also not apply to the United Kingdom.

It reads a whole lot cleaner, i.e. like you would expect from a speech, if the statement about cargo was intended to say it was not prohibited.

My best guess is honestly that it was meant to be "these prohibitions will not apply to the" instead of "these prohibitions will not only apply to the". Inserting an extra "only" is a pretty easy mistake to make when reading text out loud.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#839

Post by sumofi »

koyote wrote: post #232
sumofi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chance right now that you will know someone you love being killed by Corona is really realistic. I'm not sure how you think how critical it is. I personally have never had this issue and do not mind at all to lay still for a whole year to try to reduce the risk of this happening.

> The chance right now that you will know someone you love being killed by Corona is really realistic. Unless all the people you love are over 80 (in which case the chance of them dying before Corona hit was not much less realistic than it is now) that sentance is just completely false. Why spread such fear and misinformation?

I tell you a secret: if not traveling for a year means that even my grandfather with 91 lives a year longer, I'm on board.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#840

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

yellowapple wrote: post #565
gottebp wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would have had a massive uptick in pneumonia related deaths if this was the case. If anyone has stats on that they would be an interesting look.

Best I could find is this handy interactive map/graph from the CDC: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/fluview/mortality.html No "massive uptick" yet, but there are quite a few every week, so it could be that it's still blending in with non-COVID pneumonia cases.

I could be totally wrong in reading the chart, if you look at the 18-64 age group it's above normal levels and have been all year.
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