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U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

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Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#791

Post by bufferoverflow »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #763
tathougies wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't refuse to readmit a US citizen (as in a person that can prove that they're readily a US citizen). They can force you into quarantine and take all your stuff, but you have a right to be in the country.

Even without a passport? If I rocked up to the border of my country without a passport I'm pretty sure I'd be thrown into a detention centre if I wasn't deported on the spot.

You can't fly to the US without a passport. They wouldn't let you board the plane without it.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#792

Post by Dirlewanger »

jvm___ wrote: post #184
briffle wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's security theater, just like airport security screening. The politicians need to be seen doing something.

It's also on message. America First. You stop coming here. You're the problem, I alone can protect you from the bad hombres/virus people... Don't look into yourself and see what can be fixed, always blame the other.

Part of that message isn't wrong. The virus didn't originate in the US.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#793

Post by exdsq »

Angostura wrote: post #789
willj wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study [1] says it can last on surfaces for 2-3 days. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v...

That's an un peer-reviewed pre-print.

That might be so, however there are enough names from enough reputable research centers to take it at face value. If we need to wait for printed peer-reviewed journal papers to combat an active pandemic then we might be waiting a while!

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#794

Post by alexilliamson »

rsj_hn wrote: post #206
Frost1x wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Which is the goal, reduce infection rates. Based on the localized infection cases I see across the US and have been watching as well as the characteristics of the virus (life outside host/on surfaces, in air, the degree of asymptomatic transference, etc.), it's well beyond containment IMHO. Travel isn't going to do too much to reduce infection rates alone. We need significant cultural changes to reduce infection rat…

My 2 cents. All reductions in (non-essential) travel are good in a pandemic. That doesn't mean it's sufficient, but it's something positive. I think we would all like to see stronger social distancing rules domestically (in the US), but here the US has a problem as it granted the President broad discretionary powers to suspend international travel but not domestic gatherings, which can't be banned via executive order…

Something I've never been clear on... what can and can't be banned through executive order?

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#795

Post by ForHackernews »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #763
tathougies wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't refuse to readmit a US citizen (as in a person that can prove that they're readily a US citizen). They can force you into quarantine and take all your stuff, but you have a right to be in the country.

Even without a passport? If I rocked up to the border of my country without a passport I'm pretty sure I'd be thrown into a detention centre if I wasn't deported on the spot.

You'd be detained but if you asserted you are a US citizen they are obligated to try and establish the truth of your claim. They'll call family and friends and access government records. In an edge case, I imagine they'd hold a hearing with an immigration judge.

In college, friends of mine frequently went out partying in Tijuana and occasionally lost their passports. They were usually held for a few hours at the border crossing and given a hard time and a stern lecture about responsible behaviour before being readmitted to the US.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#797

Post by igravious »

zuminator wrote: post #498

Is there anywhere in the US where we are doing random testing of residents to determine what the real infection rate is here? From all I can see we're currently just adding up the number of people who have come in with symptoms and tested positive instead of getting a real handle on what percentage of the population is infected. The CDC website right now says that there are 938 total cases.[1] That's laughable. At th…

I've been using this Live Science web page which appears to be fairly regularly updated and sources States data and news reports: https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-updates-united-state...

It's been pretty much on the ball.

I've been maintaining a spreadsheet with States-level department of health Covid-19 situation page data and the totals roughly tally.

As of 13:00 GMT March 12: 1,300+ positive cases, 38 deaths. You could multiply the positive number by factor of 10 say to get a rough estimate of the total number of persons tested to this point (~13,000 let's say) that individual states, private labs, and the CDC have checked. (Hard to say though as only about 1/3 to 1/2 of states release full data and some are under-reporting (Nebraska and Texas afaict)) Another niggle is that it can (does?) take more than one "test" to perform a test.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#798

Post by dTal »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #730
Tepix wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did?

Depending on to which country they intended to travel exactly but all the western side of Europe is on the brink of COVID-19 explosion. Germany, France and Spain are just 7-10 days behind Italy based on number of corona virus infections. The rest are possibly around 2 weeks behind, I have not run the numbers for every country (disclosure: I am not a medical professional, my estimates are based on simple time series b…

You're assuming that the USA isn't.

Just because nobody's being tested in the US, doesn't mean nobody's infected; there are unquestionably tens of thousands of undiagnosed cases.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#799

Post by squiggleblaz »

logicchains wrote: post #559
logicchains wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All reductions in (non-essential) travel are good in a pandemic. All travel is essential to somebody. All restrictions on movement also have a cost, and any analysis that only looks at the benefits of something without looking at the costs cannot hope to be correct.

I'm curious to the downvoters, do you generally believe it's a good idea to make public policy decisions without considering the downsides? It's like people who want to ban encryption because it could marginally increase the number of terrorists caught.

Of course we should consider the downsides when we make public policy decisions. In fact, if we weren't, we wouldn't be making decisions at all but merely reacting.

But we can consider the downsides and decide that we want to restrict travel.

I don't actually need to go visit my rellies. I want to, but I don't have to. On the other hand, if I go on a voluntary trip, I probably have to return home because I can't really afford a hotel indefinitely into the future.

So it's obvious to me that there is some distinction between necessary and nice to have.

I genuinely have been underwhelmed by the reaction to this disease through much of the world. It is necessary in a constitutional democracy to react sometimes to maintain the trust of the voters - or they might say "A democracy is fine when things are going well, but when the chips are down we need a strong leader who can make the decisions we need". Saying "those entertainment business can't open during this outbreak", "keep your tables at least a metre apart" and "don't travel" are reasonable reactions in this circumstance. And we need democratic leaders so that they can know when it's gone on for too long and they have to accept we can't stop it - something a "strong leader" can't tell.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#800

Post by azernik »

localhost8000 wrote: post #640
azernik wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Restrictions on internal travel 2. Isolation for those exposed or showing symptoms 3. Paid time off work for people who can't do their jobs in isolation, to make sure people report exposure and symptoms 4. Suspension of public gatherings Some of these are being done voluntarily and/or by local governments, but that's very patchy.

I agree on all points, but are restrictions on internal travel much different from restrictions on external travel? Seems to depend on the definition of the boundaries, and I think it’s hard to quantify the relative costs of external/internal travel restrictions. So I’m not sure what we lose by also restricting “external” travel other than another level of inconvenience.

For a country the size of the US? Yes, there is a MASSIVE difference between the two. The volume of movement by air between California and, say, Colorado is massively larger than that between California and China, and one of those places currently has a COVID-19 outbreak and one does not.

The distinction between the two for the sake of definitions is also very clear - whether the restrictions apply to travel that does not cross the borders of the United States. The currently-announced restrictions do not.

The question isn't of restricting external traffic in addition to internal traffic; we're only limiting external traffic. We probably need to be doing a bit of both, though with less draconian limitations on internal traffic to accommodate economic realities.

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