Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like some dystopian eugenics shit to be honest, get rid of those who no longer contribute to society. I for one am working towards my old age, I'd hate to be left to just die.
The outcome may sound dystopian. But once you put monetary value on a life - I think insurances do around a few million per person - then the economic damage will be worth several lives anyway no matter which scenario you choose. And that kind of calculation does make sense because at some point economic damage starts to translate directly to deaths, at the latest when your food and medical supply collapses, probably…
Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
151–160 of 436 posts
Re: Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
#152- events with more than 100 people forbidden.
- all schools will close
- all non-critical employees must stay home.
- all private employees off-job as much as possible.
- stay in your home.
- don't travel to [many] countries, more restricts will come.
- All indoor cultural institutions, libraries, leisure facilities, etc. are closed.
And today they made a temporary law which will sunset 1 year from now (the law is only in effect for 1 year):
- ability to force people to be tested and put into isolation
- enter homes without warrant when occupant is suspected to be infected.
- much expanded ability to forbid events and collection of people (Note: the permission to assemble is just as fundamental culturally to Danish people as freedom-of-speech is to USA).
- ability to forbid/restrict use of transportation (likely number of passengers in buses, trains)
- suspension of "free choice" of hospitals and quarantee of treatment within some time frame (we have "socialized medicin" where we have a right to treatment within a given time frame)
- allow temporary suspension of other laws if deemed necessary
Why did this happend now: They were told yesterday that Northern Italy no longer has enough resources in their health care system and that there are now official guidelines for whom to treat and whom to let die: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-h...
Italy is close and "one of us".
Re: Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not aimed at you, but, I am disgusted at even a mention of these kind of 'calculations'. And yes, I am prepared to take a hit in my earnings, paying higher taxes if needed after this if that is what it takes for at least one person more to live.
How about 99% of your income? Your assets? How much is a stranger’s life worth to you.
Re: Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
#154At this point, the writing for the USA is on the wall: either institute a national quarantine policy, or face a mass die off of hundreds of thousands of the elderly in the next couple months. We need to start the national quarantine before things blow up to Italy and Wuhan level proportions. Yes, it will be extremely costly. But riding on imaginary hopes that the virus will just disappear for no real reason is extrao…
Hospitals will only allow visitors if they are over 16 and a primary caregiver (ie spouse), and even they are screened before being allowed in. Nursing homes are limiting visitors, both who can come, and where they can go. Companies are halting non-essential travel.
It isn't as drastic as you might think it should be, but it is significant at limiting risk for the most vulnerable.
Most of the above is running plans that have been in place for a long time (far longer than Trump), walking the line between overreacting and things getting out of control.
Re: Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
#155Sir Richard Wharton: In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
Sir Richard Wharton: In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.
Re: Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
#156> Why your government isn't acting on the Corona/COVID-19 threat
Maybe we could correct this weird Indian grammar seen in the current headline on HN?
Re: Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
#157This kind of delusional thinking is not very different from religion and believing in God. People who believe in God, when they are found in hard situations, will think that somehow god (the savior) will come for their rescue. Apparently, people who do not believe in God will think that somehow the universe/government or whatever will come to their rescue.
The issue is that people holding power/government seems to be, eh, usual folks. They are still operating with a normal brain which when confronted with abnormal situations that it can't handle will just imagine that stuff is going to return to normal.
Bill Gates has already warned about something close to the Coronavirus and that we are very far from being ready. Nobody was listening and my guess is the change is going to happen through natural selection.
Re: Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it? Just compare countries with similar properties that took measures at different points in time. Japan and Germany might not be the best to compare here, but consider: Japan, schools closed etc. at 200 cases. 8 days later: 400 cases. Germany, no action whatsoever at 200 cases, 8 days later: 1600 cases.
Japan is an island, Germany is in the Schengen area and has lots of travellers to and from Italy and other European countries
But yeah, European countries should make for better comparisons soon.
Re: Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
#159You see that playing out when measures on one level (most prominently medical advise) are not in line with broader approaches to managing events, groups, tourism and travel. We all notice the disconnect, and some might think of 'dark conspiracies'. There are none (rule of the most kind interpretation). It's the dispersion of institutions in action.
Another one is my assertion, as a former public servant with friends in places that /should know/, that there is no structured economic analysis of possible outcomes of various scenarios of intervention. There are no models, there is no time, there is not enough collaboration between agencies. On the one hand you have the medical staff and agencies doing what they can where they can on a medical level, on the other hand you have bureaucrats making decisions with limited information and way more limited understanding. Politicians probably get in the way more than they support.
My thought: Governments are acting. They are just not acting in a way that we, the public, can understand is internally consistent. That's because the acts aren't internally consistent. That is due to the fact that governement is made up of institutions with different levels of understanding, information, scope and time to act.
In a pandemic, this is all very unfortunate and a more singlehanded style of governement could help. China got it quite right after an initial denial. Nobody in the West is equipped to both think about and act on China-style measures. In normal situation our distributed model of application of knowledge (Hayek) is more efficient. Most we can hope for is rapid learning in our institutions and the fact that a whole lot of capital, both human and monetary, is available for solving this crisis.
I'm quite in a shock (my province is in partial quarantine) with what's happening, but if the world economy proofs resiliant to this shock on a say 2-yr horizon, I'm quite bullish on how strong and adaptable our institutions are and see more hope for f.e. tackling climate change than before.
Re: Why some governments appear not to be acting on the Covid-19 threat
#160The action that any government should take now is find a cure for the virus. Collectively pool resources, bring up the brightest minds in health sciences and devise a way to remove the virus from the equation. The fact that despite lockdown and other government actions and the virus is still spreading just mean that all this measures would become nil at some point.
Which might also explain why countries act differently, the max threshold for the respective medical system is different. As are projections of the spread. But I don't think we have to believe governments aren't analyzing the development daily at least.