Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote • Hacker News Board

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#61

Post by Cthulhu_ » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

pkolaczk wrote: post #18

cnorthwood wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes that all money is of equal value. Which on one level it is, but on another level, the relative purchasing power in different geographic areas is a real thing. Normalising based on that means that in effect you're paying people for the same relative quality of life, rather than same absolute value, which can be very different relatively.

The average global relative purchasing power is already reflected in the currency exchange rates. But generally there is no such thing as a "single" purchasing power. Some local goods may be cheaper in developing countries, but some others can be more expensive. If you don't know exactly what an employee is spending their money on, you can't really tell the purchasing power of their money. A big family with more kids…

Currencies are too broad though; as has been stated, cost of living in SF is a multiple of that elsewhere, and that's just in the EU. It's similar in the Netherlands (where Gitlab is from), where living in the urban western cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague, Utrecht) is unaffordable for the vast majority of people, but that's where all the tech companies decide to settle because that's also where a lot of the tech people have moved to. Somehow. The fact that a lot of people live in run-down overpriced housing or shared student living spaces seems to be ignored there.

I for one would love to be encouraged to move further out to the countryside. That's the long-term plan anyway.

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#62

Post by Cthulhu_ » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:34 AM UTC

beyondcompute wrote: post #58

Don’t forget firing some people based on their nationality. Gitlab’s good at that!

Isn't that because of US sanctions? Blame them.

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#63

Post by Cthulhu_ » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:36 AM UTC

znq wrote: post #31

Our Company Handbook for Remote Work https://mobilejazz.com/company-handbook-pdf/ Other HN members have pointed out previously, that it looks like a landing page where you need to leave your e-mail address. You don't. You can download the PDF from here directly.

Why do you have it as a PDF hidden behind a call-to-action reminiscent of a sign-up though? Turn it into a website, that'll make it a lot more accessible - assuming getting people to read it is the goal, of course.

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#64

Post by statictype » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:36 AM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #3

I find it interesting how they achieve this and it also gives people in remote places the ability to work for such a company. What I don't agree with is the pay scale they use based on your location. If you have the same skills, you should be paid the same.

Cost of living is different in different places. This only works if you pay everyone at the rate you pay in the most expensive location.

I think you can understand why that’s not a great idea from a company sustainability stand point.

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#65

Post by jedieaston » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:37 AM UTC

avip wrote: post #60

sschueller wrote: post #3

I find it interesting how they achieve this and it also gives people in remote places the ability to work for such a company. What I don't agree with is the pay scale they use based on your location. If you have the same skills, you should be paid the same.

That is ok. When you start your own distributed company, you could fix that.

Or just work for Basecamp, which locks all of their salaries at the San Francisco avg even though everyone works remotely and they are based in the Midwest.

Probably has something to do with how few people they employ.

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#66

Post by oehtXRwMkIs » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:37 AM UTC

beyondcompute wrote: post #58

Don’t forget firing some people based on their nationality. Gitlab’s good at that!

Not really their fault is it? It's more of the fault of US policy in general.

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#67

Post by ComodoHacker » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:37 AM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #3

I find it interesting how they achieve this and it also gives people in remote places the ability to work for such a company. What I don't agree with is the pay scale they use based on your location. If you have the same skills, you should be paid the same.

>What I don't agree with is the pay scale they use based on your location. If you have the same skills, you should be paid the same.

Why? How is it any different from moving manufacturing or support to a country with lower cost of living? A honest question.

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#68

Post by mosselman » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:38 AM UTC

rizz0 wrote: post #5

sschueller wrote: post #3

I find it interesting how they achieve this and it also gives people in remote places the ability to work for such a company. What I don't agree with is the pay scale they use based on your location. If you have the same skills, you should be paid the same.

> If you have the same skills, you should be paid the same? Why is that? I don’t necessarily disagree with your statement. But why would it be fair for someone of equal skill to be able to afford less food and healthcare just because they live in a place with higher prices and higher taxes? Should everybody be incentivized to relocate to a developing country or tax haven because of the internet and your equality rule…

Ok, lets say we live in the same street, work in the same office, do the same work and we both provide exactly the same value to the company.

Lets say your mother has given you her old car to drive and you just pay insurance and gas.

Lets say I bought a Ferrari Roma.

What you are saying is that you'd find it unfair if I were paid 'as little' as you, because I have to deal with the expenses of paying off my Ferrari. I'll take that deal.

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#69

Post by hawkice » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:38 AM UTC

aidos wrote: post #43

eloisant wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software companies like Gitlab don't address a local market. They target a global market, which is the same no matter where you're based and no matter where your employees live. If you can afford to pay San Francisco developers a given salary, you can afford to pay Des Moines employees as much. Let the employees benefit from their cheaper location rather than taking that away from them. Otherwise where is the incenti…

> If you can afford to pay San Francisco developers a given salary, you can afford to pay Des Moines employees as much. That’s not really true. There are companies with a few employees in expensive locations and many in low income regions. If you switched everyone to the same salary you’d bankrupt the company. I certain don’t assume to know what Gitlab’s financials look like. What if a company is paying above market…

> That’s not really true. There are companies with a few employees in expensive locations and many in low income regions. If you switched everyone to the same salary you’d bankrupt the company. I certain don’t assume to know what Gitlab’s financials look like.

There's a slight of hand going on here, where you at first assume all employees are fungible, to mention it's not possible for some firms to pay all employees the same.

But then you ignore that, before someone is hired, when they're merely a potential-hire, they _are_ (basically) fungible with all the other potential-hires. If you can afford the most expensive one, you can afford the cheaper one.

No one suggested paying everyone the same huge amount. But if you are paying Huge Amount X, that can go anywhere.

Re: Gitlab's Guide to All-Remote

#70

Post by pingyong » Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 9:39 AM UTC

rizz0 wrote: post #5

sschueller wrote: post #3

I find it interesting how they achieve this and it also gives people in remote places the ability to work for such a company. What I don't agree with is the pay scale they use based on your location. If you have the same skills, you should be paid the same.

> If you have the same skills, you should be paid the same? Why is that? I don’t necessarily disagree with your statement. But why would it be fair for someone of equal skill to be able to afford less food and healthcare just because they live in a place with higher prices and higher taxes? Should everybody be incentivized to relocate to a developing country or tax haven because of the internet and your equality rule…

>Should everybody be incentivized to relocate to a developing country or tax haven because of the internet and your equality rule?

Yes, actually. Well, tax havens shouldn't be legal in the first place, but getting people with good salaries into poorer countries is good, because they pay taxes there.

Of course, the vast majority of people would actually not go to poor countries, they would simply leave cities. Which is also something that should definitely be incentivized.