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U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

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Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#541

Post by protein_lense »

FireBeyond wrote: post #318
penagwin wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the only reason we aren't reporting large numbers of new cases is because of the lack of widespread testing currently being done compared to other countries at this moment (other countries are performing magnitudes higher tests a day). Even if you think you have it, there's still not enough test kits available yet - even if you're swabbed it can be days for a result(Saying this from west michigan).

> Even if you think you have it, there's still not enough test kits available yet The messaging on this has been pathetic. The other day UW in Seattle announced they had a capacity to test 1,000/day. Not adequate for the nation, but for the PNW, sure.

I'm in Seattle. While there may be official "kits" for this, the protocol can be run in any competent lab set up for this type of assay. DNA primers specific for covid-19 would need to be ordered, but this is routine.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/rt-pcr-detecti...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/rt-pcr-panel-p...

ETA: I'm having trouble locating positive control template sequences.

I am happy for S. Korea running 100,000+ tests, and embarrassed that the US has maybe run 1000s at this point. I also think that the virus is widely dispersed in the US and the best we can hope for is to keep the case load at a level manageable by our health care system. I'm pretty worried about that though.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#542

Post by rsj_hn »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #508
rsj_hn wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are valid points. As to the test kits, I keep hearing conflicting info -- e.g. that there was a shortage of ingredients, too much FDA red tape, etc. There will plenty of root cause analysis in the future, but I think we have to reshore critical infrastructure and there is lots of red tape to cut in both CDC and FDA.

My personal theory is that someone in the executive branch wanted to secure an exclusive contract for a personal friend. Something similar happened in the first few months of the Kuwait oil fires, with certain american fire fighting firms being given exclusive contracts to fight the fires, despite lacking the technology and expertise to extinguish them. But I'm just a cynical man. It could very well be something else…

Even with an exclusive contract, a nation such as the US should be able to quickly ramp production of all the test kits, masks, latex gloves, respirators, oxygen concentrators, antibiotics and other pharmaceuticals that we need.

Yet we can't.

That's crazy and it has to change.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#543

Post by joemoon »

wpietri wrote: post #122
allovernow wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think some moron bumbled his way into the most powerful office in the world? Have you stopped to think about how unlikely something like that is? You may not agree with his style (I don't) or his personality (hate it) but the guy has to be minimally intelligent to make it as far as he has. At the very least he knows how to work a crowd and spot opportunity.

I think you're confusing different kinds of intelligence. Just to lower the temperature, I'll use a non-political example. My grandfather, long since departed, was a master salesman. He sold all sorts of stuff door to door, including the highly dubious Kirby vacuum cleaners, before ending up in real estate. He was an incredibly good manipulator of people, but he was a very bad planner. He once famously sold the same…

Thank you for the anecdote. It was well written and I think it’s very applicable to the current topic.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#544

Post by cylinder »

jackson1way wrote: post #476

Just de-boarded and re-boarded an aircraft going to Europe from NY because of this „small“ missing „detail“ in the initial announcement. 4h delay and the people who de-boarded the plane initially, are not re-boarding because they probably left the airport by now, not knowing they had wrong information. Ouch.

It's so dumb, immediate family members not applicable -- so check-in agents are now going to be in the business of examining birth certificates?

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#545

Post by _-___________-_ »

sjg007 wrote: post #458
rtkwe wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) is because as I understand it it's /very/ hard to legally refuse to readmit a US citizen. You can seize all their stuff at the border but besides arresting them for a crime you can't really keep them from coming home.

Doesn’t matter if there’s no flights or boats.

There may well be flights. Crew are exempt, so at least for slot-controlled airports it's probably worth flying anyway to keep the slot; you'll have some US citizens / permanent residents and their families, and you can fill the belly with cargo since you have spare weight. Might be worth it even for airports that aren't slot-controlled.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#546

Post by silasdavis »

xtof wrote: post #537
cavisne wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there will be flights, from the UK (which is why it was left off).

I suspect UK was left off because POTUS has resorts in Ireland and Scotland, and no where in Europe. There's nothing credible about UK being off the list while every surrounding country is on it.

I thought it was a reward for our big beautiful breakfast

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#547

Post by _-___________-_ »

BryantD wrote: post #152

Important updates: a) This does not apply to US citizens or their family members[1]. b) This does not apply to cargo[2]. It appears that the President misspoke regarding point 2. [1] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting... . [2] https://twitter.com/AnaSwanson/status/1237921160500830208

Crew are also exempt.

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#548

Post by localhost8000 »

bratawurst wrote: post #480
refurb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about flattening the curve at this point. You can do your best to identify those infected and have them self-quarantine, but if the gates are open and infected people are streaming into your country, you're not going to get far.

You’re describing the opposite of flattening the curve. Closing the gates now does nothing. I do not mean to be patronizing, but this is literally life or death and the math is very simple. Today there are k infected people. Tomorrow there will be kn people. If n is unsustainable, any positive value for k is equivalent. Arbitrarily large changes to k today make an arbitrarily small contribution to the final doubling.…

What do you propose be done instead of a travel ban?

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#549

Post by tony101 »

pedrosorio wrote: post #463
rtkwe wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) is because as I understand it it's /very/ hard to legally refuse to readmit a US citizen. You can seize all their stuff at the border but besides arresting them for a crime you can't really keep them from coming home.

a) is not only citizens but also permanent residents, which I believe do not have the same legal protections

IANAL, but while lawful permanent residents do not have the same protections, they still have certain protections that make it legally unclear whether the president can categorically bar entry without an immigration court proceeding for each individual:

"Section 212(f) can certainly apply to applicants for immigrant visas. Whether it can apply to an LPR who is returning and not seeking admission is questionable. This is because under section 101(a)(13)(C), an LPR being covered by a Presidential Proclamation under section 212(f) would not cause the LPR to be considered to be seeking admission."

http://myattorneyusa.com/scope-and-history-of-section-212f-p...

"An alien returning to the United States who has been granted lawful permanent resident status cannot be regarded as seeking an admission and may not be charged with inadmissibility under section 212(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. § 1182(a) (2012), if he or she does not fall within any of the exceptions in section 101(a)(13)(C) of the Act, 8 U.S.C. § 1101(a)(13)(C) (2012)."

https://www.justice.gov/eoir/file/478111/download

Re: U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days

#550

Post by _-___________-_ »

killjoywashere wrote: post #310
jessriedel wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outbound flights are going to get a hell of a lot more expensive if all the planes have to return to the US empty.

Nah, all planes are just going to be routed through a non-European destination en route back. The Azores are about to be very popular.

They don't need to be routed through a non-European destination. Crew are exempt. The airlines will just deny boarding to people subject to the ban (which is non-exempt people who have been in Schengen in the last 14 days, not people who just came from there).
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