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Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

nytimes.com

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#201

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

jeffdavis wrote: post #180
c3534l wrote: post #119

Interesting. I was never a fan of AA and I was very critical in the lack of science and rigor in addiction treatment, and actually for mental health in general. I always felt there were better treatments, but CBT-based group therapy / 12-step alternatives are pretty rare. All you really need to start a chapter of AA is to not have one nearby and a place to host it. It's comforting that AA at least doesn't make things…

"I'm still not comfortable with the fact that the government will require people to attend what is essentially a religious service as criminal punishment" Maybe there's some kind of slippery slope there, where they eventually start sending you to church for a parking ticket. But we don't seem to be sliding to that conclusion very quickly; so if it works, just go with it. If you want to make a big federal case out of…

> But I honestly don't see how anyone wins with that outcome.

Then you presumably aren't aware of how abusive religious people can be towards atheists, and that includes in AA groups.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#202

Post by tejtm »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #159
C19is20 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After 15yrs of a-abuse, 4 bottles of alcover (sodium oxibate? i believe available - prescription only - only in one country) cured me. I bought 2 cases of xtra-strong beer 'just in case', have had 2 cans on my desk for months now. 0 interest in drinking.

Why in the world would you tempt yourself like that?

How can you know you who is in control if you don't?

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#203

Post by throwaway5667 »

Valmar wrote: post #200
cies wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even to speak about Ayahuasca (DMT) and Ibogaine. They seem to have even more of these therapeutic properties.

Ibogaine is amazing at dealing with addiction, considering that it can blow away a serious Heroin addiction after one good trip.

Isn't ibogaine that one drug where you have to go to West Africa to find it due to its being illegal and inaccessible everywhere else and trips last for literal days?

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#204

Post by [deleted] »

toofy wrote: post #169
athrowaway69 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had other experiences. The friendships I had in AA were superficial. Once, when I was struggling and needed help and people to talk to, I was completely ignored by the people around me. They didn't want to help the struggling - just to have this toxic positivity that nothing is wrong. I later moved out of state. I came back to visit family, and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had re…

> ... and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had relapsed after I moved and continued using until I was homeless. It was a drama fest. I obviously don’t have your unique and nuanced understanding of the situation, but this seems like a common occurrence with all humans when they lack information. In my experience when we don’t have information, our group tendencies lean towards filling g…

[deleted]

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#205

Post by iateanapple »

athrowaway69 wrote: post #137
elixanchor wrote: post #115

recovering addict here. some words for those who may be struggling. i tried a number of things over many years (life coach, therapy, meditation retreats, ayahuasca, ibogaine, etc). i reached a bottom, and nothing i had tried really worked or stuck. kept relapsing after a few months of sobriety at most. ultimately it was going to AA that i largely credit to my successful transformation into a happy life of sobriety. i…

I had other experiences. The friendships I had in AA were superficial. Once, when I was struggling and needed help and people to talk to, I was completely ignored by the people around me. They didn't want to help the struggling - just to have this toxic positivity that nothing is wrong. I later moved out of state. I came back to visit family, and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had re…

> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists.

In my experience there are two types of atheists who go to AA: those for whom religion “isn’t their thing” and those who are actively hostile to religion.

I think the latter group should find an alternative to AA.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#207

Post by [deleted] »

craftyguy wrote: post #165
athrowaway69 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had other experiences. The friendships I had in AA were superficial. Once, when I was struggling and needed help and people to talk to, I was completely ignored by the people around me. They didn't want to help the struggling - just to have this toxic positivity that nothing is wrong. I later moved out of state. I came back to visit family, and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had re…

> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. That's unfortunate, and mostly in line with other experiences I've heard from friends, etc. AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction. Too bad.

[deleted]

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#208

Post by HarryHirsch »

It's noteworthy that all but one of the studies quoted in that meta-review were conducted in the United States. The usual criticism levied against AA is that it takes a religious approach, but that's not even true, it it built on evangelicalism. If you are in the US, you are either evangelical or you at least understand evangelicalism because that's what your friends and colleagues profess. You wonder how AA would fare in other countries, where their approach would meet with bafflement or hostility because the background is not understood.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#209

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

fat_cam wrote: post #149
saberience wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a major understanding of this part of AA. This DOES NOT mean acknowledging that you believe there is a god. The concept of a "higher power" can mean anything you want it to mean. You can imagine your higher power is Gandalf, Sauron, elves at the bottom of the garden, or even some aspect of your "best self." You could imagine it to be the spirits of your ancestors or even something like the energy of t…

As a current and active member of AA, let me re-affirm that this battle over a "higher power" exists inside the rooms of AA just as everyone is arguing about it here. A great many alcoholics let them selves get hung up on the concept of a higher power, or more specifically, the word "God". The word God appears 134 times in the first 164 pages of the Big Book. For many non religious people as well as non Christian peo…

> That power could be the love of your family, wife/husband, kids, the energy that moves the cosmos, or a fucking Zagnut bar.

So, either you actually believe that a Zagnut bar is an agent that can help you out of your desparate situation by using its special powers. Or you are intentionally obfuscating the rather obvious fact that indeed, people do not need to surrender to anything or anyone, because obviously it's not the Zagnut bar doing the work, but rather exclusively they themselves.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#210

Post by [deleted] »

p7hwfizeONj wrote: post #187
Klonoar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I've gone to these meetings with a number of people (my mother, who unfortunately lost her battles with it, and other family members/friends). I'll note that I've done this worldwide, to some degree - Japan, USA (east and west coast). I'm saying this to point out that I'm in there as an observer for these people attempting recovery, so this experience is cultivated from multiple viewpoints/locales/etc. I ha…

I reached a point where I realized I needed help to quit drinking. I looked into AA and a coworker whom I knew had gone through the program gave me a little red book. It felt very dogmatic and turned me off to the program. I never attended a meeting. Instead I read a different book that could be summarized as "There are lots of good reasons to stop drinking and lets go over them." I also used r/stopdrinking as a supp…

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