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Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

theguardian.com

31–40 of 114 posts

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#31

22 months in jail for making "damp firework" level explosives. What a travesty.

We used to do this in high school and bought a single large bag of potassium nitrate from a local commercial agriculture shop. We even called ahead to make sure that it had specific chemical designations on the bag because it was far enough away to be a pain to get to. Looking back it was very dumb in a legal sense (and a lung health sense haha).

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#32
post #5

I hate how chemistry can land people in legal hot water due to overzealous government policies. While this example is not in the UK. It's illegal to own certain glassware without a permit in Texas for instance. The glassware is considered a drug precursor, like freaking glassware. Oh also federally the DEA treats Phosphorus as a type 1 precursor to meth. That's a freaking element! An element is illegal/regulated like…

In D&D there is a certain type of spell called Power Word Kill which works slightly differently based on the version of D&D you're playing with, but the effect is that it essentially kills a single individual with a single word. I'm not saying phosphorus should be legal or illegal, but at some point "it's just a packet I sent on the internet" or "it's just a PDF I sent to someone overseas" or "it's just an element" m…

> A certain degree of limiting the power of individual actors is wise.

Unless you’re the individual and you aren’t malicious, you just want some glassware.

I think your approach that people should be kept in a sandbox until they can prove to the state that they are “fundamentally good” is a terrifying one.

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#33
post #5

I hate how chemistry can land people in legal hot water due to overzealous government policies. While this example is not in the UK. It's illegal to own certain glassware without a permit in Texas for instance. The glassware is considered a drug precursor, like freaking glassware. Oh also federally the DEA treats Phosphorus as a type 1 precursor to meth. That's a freaking element! An element is illegal/regulated like…

In D&D there is a certain type of spell called Power Word Kill which works slightly differently based on the version of D&D you're playing with, but the effect is that it essentially kills a single individual with a single word. I'm not saying phosphorus should be legal or illegal, but at some point "it's just a packet I sent on the internet" or "it's just a PDF I sent to someone overseas" or "it's just an element" m…

Deciding what is fundamentally good or drawing the line (eg the glassware) is the muddy part. The road to hell is paved with good intentions -- next thing you know, science chemistry kits are illegal & large swaths of population no longer believe in a spherical earth, evolution, and climate science.

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#34

22 months in jail for making "damp firework" level explosives. What a travesty.

22 months on remand for terrorism charges, in a country which has seen recent mass fatalities from homemade explosives? Really this is a "don't you know there's a war on" situation, everyone should know that messing around with unapproved explosives is likely to get you reported to anti-terrorism police.

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#35
post #5

I hate how chemistry can land people in legal hot water due to overzealous government policies. While this example is not in the UK. It's illegal to own certain glassware without a permit in Texas for instance. The glassware is considered a drug precursor, like freaking glassware. Oh also federally the DEA treats Phosphorus as a type 1 precursor to meth. That's a freaking element! An element is illegal/regulated like…

In D&D there is a certain type of spell called Power Word Kill which works slightly differently based on the version of D&D you're playing with, but the effect is that it essentially kills a single individual with a single word. I'm not saying phosphorus should be legal or illegal, but at some point "it's just a packet I sent on the internet" or "it's just a PDF I sent to someone overseas" or "it's just an element" m…

"it's just a number!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controvers...

in all seriousness, I think it's worth drawing a distinction between laws that prohibit actions that actually harm people and laws that make life easier for law enforcement. sidestepping the controversial issue of drug policy itself, the manufacturing of drugs is the problematic behavior in the phosphorus example. the controls on phosphorus itself are just to make enforcement easier. we should look on the latter type of laws with great skepticism.

this is not to say I feel fully comfortable with private citizens enriching large amounts of uranium, but to as great an extent as possible, people should be free to do stuff that doesn't actually hurt anyone. imo that's a key aspect of what we call a "free society".

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#36
post #6

good for him. he only has one life and he aint spending it in a sandwich factory. hes exploring some of the most exciting chemistry this world has. and its a shame we live in a place where people are terrified and manipulated by tv into thinking anyone who shows interest in these things must be placed in a small room for a long time. 300 gears ago governments would be giving him money and patting him on the back. som…

Could not disagree more, for much of human history only the rich and their offspring typically had access to higher education and crucially learning materials, books where horrendously expensive for example for all but the most wealthy. We live in a golden age for autodidacts, that people often seem intellectually incurious says less about the society and more the people who constitute it, many people are simply incu…

You can both be right.

Maybe we live in a time of unprecedented access to education and affordable materials, which is also a time of extreme inequality and selective enforcement that grinds most people into the dust.

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#37
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In D&D there is a certain type of spell called Power Word Kill which works slightly differently based on the version of D&D you're playing with, but the effect is that it essentially kills a single individual with a single word. I'm not saying phosphorus should be legal or illegal, but at some point "it's just a packet I sent on the internet" or "it's just a PDF I sent to someone overseas" or "it's just an element" m…

Deciding what is fundamentally good or drawing the line (eg the glassware) is the muddy part. The road to hell is paved with good intentions -- next thing you know, science chemistry kits are illegal & large swaths of population no longer believe in a spherical earth, evolution, and climate science.

Even setting aside the questionable association of beakers and evolution, you can take the same logic both ways: "next thing you know, asbestos is in every home and large swaths of the population take mass shootings for granted as an unpreventable phenomenon."

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#38
post #5

I hate how chemistry can land people in legal hot water due to overzealous government policies. While this example is not in the UK. It's illegal to own certain glassware without a permit in Texas for instance. The glassware is considered a drug precursor, like freaking glassware. Oh also federally the DEA treats Phosphorus as a type 1 precursor to meth. That's a freaking element! An element is illegal/regulated like…

In D&D there is a certain type of spell called Power Word Kill which works slightly differently based on the version of D&D you're playing with, but the effect is that it essentially kills a single individual with a single word. I'm not saying phosphorus should be legal or illegal, but at some point "it's just a packet I sent on the internet" or "it's just a PDF I sent to someone overseas" or "it's just an element" m…

If the intent is to protect people from phosphorus, I'd just like to point out that you can buy large amounts of gasoline without any paperwork, without even raising any eyebrows. If somebody wants to commit arson, bullshit regulations on phosphorus won't stop them. Nor does it require any knowledge a gradeschooler doesn't possess.

This isn't even academic, a maniac killed 36 people like this in Japan last year.

If the point is being missed, then what is the point being missed? What does regulating small amounts of phosphorus actually accomplish in a society where gasoline is available in every neighborhood?

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#39
post #5

I hate how chemistry can land people in legal hot water due to overzealous government policies. While this example is not in the UK. It's illegal to own certain glassware without a permit in Texas for instance. The glassware is considered a drug precursor, like freaking glassware. Oh also federally the DEA treats Phosphorus as a type 1 precursor to meth. That's a freaking element! An element is illegal/regulated like…

Free states write laws that criminalize harmful actions. Police states write laws that criminalize possessing things that could be used harmfully.

Another way to look at this is how far back you go trying to prevent crime by punishing "pre-crime" activities. For instance, certain kinds of meetings might lead to a criminal plot; or hiding certain kinds of things; or publishing information that might be used by criminals.

Re: Man's 'experiments' with explosives were lawful, court rules

#40
post #25

I mean, you really ought to be able to experiment with explosives in a free country, as long as you're not hurting anyone / planning to hurt anyone. It's obviously legal when companies in the industry do it. Why shouldn't it be for private citizens.

”as long as you're not hurting anyone / planning to hurt anyone” By that definition, car racing on public streets, running red lights and ignoring speed limits is absolutely fine, as long as you’re not hurting anyone / planning to hurt anyone. Regulations that limit the risks people get exposed to exist for a reason: you can’t undo damage done to others by punishing the culprit. That’s why, for example, reckless driv…

No one was alleging that him keeping the explosives at home was putting anyone but himself at risk, which makes it crucially different from speeding. The idea behind these explosives laws is to catch people intending to cause harm while they are plotting.
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