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Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

nytimes.com

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#121

Post by neonate »

JamesBarney wrote: post #118
neonate wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Cochrane reviews are notoriously good. They're always spoken of as the standard in meta-analysis. What's interesting here is that new research is contradicting previous findings. According to https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/upshot/alcoholics-anonymo... , the weak studies they weeded out were ones that had found against AA, not in favor of it.

It is, but even if the review is done really well garbage in/garbage out.

The 2006 Cochrane Collaboration review was based on just eight studies, and ended with a call for more research to assess the program’s efficacy. In the intervening years, researchers answered the call. The newer review also applied standards that weeded out some weaker studies that drove earlier findings.

In the last decade or so, researchers have published a number of very high-quality randomized trials and quasi-experiments. Of the 27 studies in the new review, 21 have randomized designs. Together, these flip the conclusion.

(from that NYT link)

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#124

Post by jfengel »

simion314 wrote: post #39
saberience wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a major understanding of this part of AA. This DOES NOT mean acknowledging that you believe there is a god. The concept of a "higher power" can mean anything you want it to mean. You can imagine your higher power is Gandalf, Sauron, elves at the bottom of the garden, or even some aspect of your "best self." You could imagine it to be the spirits of your ancestors or even something like the energy of t…

>The point is surrendering to something "bigger" than yourself. Don't get tied up in militant atheist perspectives. There are people that can just say "from tomorrow I will believe in God/afterlife/spirits etc. It would be so easy to live knowing that your loved ones are not gone or that if you are good enough your problems will be solved soon but for some people(like me) it is like trying to convince me that 2+2=5 a…

And fortunately, you don't have to.

People come to AA when their lives have completely fallen to shit. They need something, even if it's something that they have to completely make up for themselves out of whole cloth. They'll believe it because they need to believe it.

People who can quit cold turkey, or manage their alcohol consumption, should do so. AA is a last resort, when you're so desperate that even an atheist is willing to give up something of themselves in order to stop drinking. For atheists there are ways to make that "higher power" palatable, but it's still going to be horrible.

Most people will never have to do that, and they should happily pass that by. Just be aware that there are people whose lives are that bad that they'll try to force themselves to believe. Even so, many will fail. Addiction is a terrible, awful thing.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#125

Post by sbilstein »

I didn’t do AA but did AlAnon for children of alcoholics recovering from trauma. Despite what people think, the 12 step program is super light on the spirituality stuff and very atheist friendly. As a recovery group AlAnon was super useful for getting some closure on the hell my parents dragged me through and just leaving that stuff behind.

Edit:I guess I should have qualified that I’ve only done support groups in SF that have been great and usually hosted by churches.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#127

Post by thrownaway954 »

thrownaway954 wrote: post #116

just remember everyone that there are other 12 step and recovery focused programs and out there. so adventure out, explore, meet people, find where you fit and heal :) https://aa.org/pages/en_US/meeting-guide Alcoholics Anonymous - for those who have a desire to stop drinking alcohol. https://www.na.org/meetingsearch/ Narcotics Anonymous - for those who have a desire to stop using drugs. https://secularaa.org/meeting…

one other thing... just because you might have had a bad experience at one aa or recovery meeting doesn't mean that recovery in general sucks. i always say, there is a reason why most 5:30 pm meetings are called Happy Hour. most trade the room for the bar and although they aren't drinking or using they are still jerks and aren't doing the same stuff they use to do. the old saying is a sober horse thief is still a horse thief. i find that people who are serious about getting sober usually go to morning meetings or smaller meetings (like church meetings). also... men with men, women with women seems to work for most.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#128

Post by Waterluvian »

sbilstein wrote: post #125

I didn’t do AA but did AlAnon for children of alcoholics recovering from trauma. Despite what people think, the 12 step program is super light on the spirituality stuff and very atheist friendly. As a recovery group AlAnon was super useful for getting some closure on the hell my parents dragged me through and just leaving that stuff behind. Edit:I guess I should have qualified that I’ve only done support groups in SF…

My understanding is that they don't even need you to acknowledge a God, just that "there is cosmically something bigger than you and you have no power to govern it"

Is that about what you experienced?

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#129

Post by Kuraj »

sbilstein wrote: post #125

I didn’t do AA but did AlAnon for children of alcoholics recovering from trauma. Despite what people think, the 12 step program is super light on the spirituality stuff and very atheist friendly. As a recovery group AlAnon was super useful for getting some closure on the hell my parents dragged me through and just leaving that stuff behind. Edit:I guess I should have qualified that I’ve only done support groups in SF…

I'm sorry you had to go through that.

Thank you for telling me about Al-Anon - I will look into it myself.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#130

Post by gameswithgo »

Waterluvian wrote: post #128
sbilstein wrote: post #125

I didn’t do AA but did AlAnon for children of alcoholics recovering from trauma. Despite what people think, the 12 step program is super light on the spirituality stuff and very atheist friendly. As a recovery group AlAnon was super useful for getting some closure on the hell my parents dragged me through and just leaving that stuff behind. Edit:I guess I should have qualified that I’ve only done support groups in SF…

My understanding is that they don't even need you to acknowledge a God, just that "there is cosmically something bigger than you and you have no power to govern it" Is that about what you experienced?

even that is just silly. it is true only when the idea devolves into that kind of tautology.

I would obviously let it slide if I needed this kind of thing, but it is clearly cruft.

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