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MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

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Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the usual university budget and the going rate for overqualified, part-time, and temporary adjuncts, the staff is less limited than one might think. Remote students and remote adjuncts--what do you need administrators for? Ah, yes, to collect the tuition, attend the luncheons, and issue the credentials. It would at least put a small dent in the oversupply of Ph.D. holders in some fields.

Well if MIT/Stanford/Harvard are what they are because of the elitism of getting to study there, and the branding-power it brings to one's resume, it kinda seems obvious they will have 0 interest in have an unlimited supply of students/graduates, which surely would diminish/affect the branding power on a resume of any of those universities programs, if literally a lots of new graduates could be graduating from those…

My point is that there is no supply-scarcity limit on university teaching positions. But you are correct that each university has a monopoly on their own brand, so they can restrict supply and raise prices up to the monopolistic competition limit (as the other universities are close substitutes). For the select few universities whose degrees are a Veblen good, the more they charge for their degrees and faculty positions (not just in tuition, but in time, application qualifications, and influence), the more they return in upper-class prestige (not just faculty pay and graduate earnings). You can't project that you only take the top 0.1%, if you admit 0.2% of all high-school graduates.

That prestige problem is especially dire with medical colleges in the US. The patient community (aka everybody) desires more numerous, cheaper, and better-distributed physicians, but the physician community desires higher-paying positions that are more costly to fill, with a remuneration premium for working in less desirable territories. So only some hospitals are teaching hospitals, and their residency programs have limited slots. (I think the Army/VA system could possibly break that cartel, by ordering qualified recruits that sign up for a longer term of service to become physicians, and routing their medical training outside of the civilian system. It would certainly drop ER visit prices when those stabilization specialists and trauma surgeons get their 20 and start to "retire" out to civilian jobs.)

If universities are going to order students and faculty to leave campus, they are removing a huge piece of their competitive advantage over universities that already have mature distance-learning programs, but with lower tuition. If MIT takes its campus off the table, the thing they have left is their brand name. That's enough to sustain them, specifically, but there aren't many other universities that could get away with it. The one just up Massachusetts Avenue, maybe, and a handful of others. And they still have to pay for grounds and facilities upkeep, even if they aren't using them as much.

Any other distance learning program could probably hire 1 remote adjunct for every 10-15 remote students and outdo "two sections of lecture hall plus office hours" tenured professors that have a 1:300 ratio. They can use some of the savings for cheap test proctors at distributed--and possibly also shared--evaluation sites. If every surplus Ph.D. can get a part-time remote teaching-support gig for 20 hours a week at $25/hour, they can still keep working the jobs they already have, that don't require their advanced degrees, because their graduate universities did not restrict Ph.D. output to just what the industry could bear.

A degree from MIT might open more interview doors, but there is less difference in switching between schools like Rose-Hulman and Georgia Tech. If campus location is no longer a factor, any student could study at any school. Schools that want to survive under such competition would have to bring down costs, fast.

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you thought about inverting your thinking? Every pandemic this century ended up being a damp squib despite WHO et al promising doomsday.

Was it the WHO promising doomsday? Or the media reporting on it?

The WHO

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you thought about inverting your thinking? Every pandemic this century ended up being a damp squib despite WHO et al promising doomsday.

Did they end up being a "damp squib", or were corrective and protective measures implemented to slow them sufficiently so as to control them before they became endemic?

Damp squib

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they end up being a "damp squib", or were corrective and protective measures implemented to slow them sufficiently so as to control them before they became endemic?

Damp squib

And your rationale for that characterization is...?

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the value of an elite education is signaling: it proves the student had what it takes both to get into MIT, and to graduate. If MIT switched to an online-only format, that would erode the value of the latter (which, remember, is social proof, not something which is notoriously rational), while open enrollment would obliterate the former. A semester of remote teaching won't damage the brand.

It’s hard to get into MIT. Once in, it’s just not that hard to graduate. It’s a grind and parts are moderately difficult, but I think the hard filter is up-front (and lossy/random). (class of 1993.)

Yep. The 4-year graduation rate isn't great, but almost everyone gets there eventually. I know plenty of people who just kept plugging away, dropping classes in the 10th week if they were going to fail. One extreme outlier took 17 years.

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you show me any UK university that has shared sleeping rooms? I have never heard of this. Shared living areas, i.e. sharing a house, does exist, and is what my original post said.

My halls at Imperial College had double and triple shared rooms [1]. Looks like they don't use those buildings as halls any more though. [1] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/centenary/memories/JoaoCabral.sht...

I stand corrected, thanks!

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#557
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO Perhaps for some, but everyone I knew while I was an Ivy undergrad was doing their level best to take advantage of the benefits of that amazing environment of smart, educated people, both the profs, the visiting speakers, and the other students. Since then, it has been what I've learned, not what signaling I could do that has helped me most (tho I'm not the most social person, so YMV). One thing I really learned t…

This comment. All this nonsense about elite universities being just about the degree and signalling is absolute rubbish. Elite universities are elite because they are made of some of the most influential thinkers, scientists, engineers, and professors in the world. Getting to participate in problem solving with these people is what makes these educations valuable in my opinion. I learned more from watching my profess…

Exactly

Yet my above comment, a factual 1st-person account -- nothing more, nothing less -- earns multiple downvotes with no dispute/discussion.

Evidently, anti-intellectualism and 'anti-establishment' virtue-signalling is dominant even here on HN... Sad to see. (yup, let the downvotes begin --- sheesh)

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen a true dorm with a kitchen, the transition apartments owned by the university for juniors and seniors had them but freshman and sophomore dorms I've been in tend to have microwaves and thats it. Its the right decision in my opinion since the largest number of fire alarm evacuations I've had to do were in those dorms because 18 and 19 year olds living away from their parents can't even figure out how t…

how does an 18-year-old who cant even make popcorn even get into college???

Or get hired by Google or Facebook.

https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/1237577750480740353?s=2...

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#559
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't undergraduate ivy league programs more about signaling status than actually becoming educated?

MIT isn't ivy league and probably the least 'about signaling' school in the US...

Pretty sure my school you never heard of has MIT beat on that one.

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#560
post #475

I guess it will help to make MOOC platforms like Coursera[1] and edX[2] much better. It did help to improve online education platforms in China already. [1] https://github.com/coursera [2] https://github.com/edx

I can't seem to find a source, but I thought I'd read that MIT and Hardvard and others were either pulling out or removing old courses from edX due to some accessibility laws. Does anybody know what I'm talking about?
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