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Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

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Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#71

Post by mech1234 »

program_whiz wrote: post #68

Meta point: do we have to accept deception as a necessary part of sales? It seems strange that we accept deception and manipulation as necessary ingredients in the market, and that its on the buyer when they "get duped". But couldn't we have a standard where literally anything anyone says to a customer must be true, or was not false to the knowledge of the person saying it? Scammy warranties, timeshares, and other "g…

Advertising fraud is already illegal. The situations where case law dictates what is illegal are varied and nuanced. As a side note, there are many categories of claims that fall in neither "provably true" nor "provably untrue", and enforcing upon these claims is tricky.

You can google for "advertising fraud precedent" "advertising fraud case law" and "advertising fraud case studies" for more information.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#72

Post by sharken »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian I want to point out that there are no Norwegian owners of Norwegian Cruise Lines. It is to my knowledge fully American owned. It was Norwegian long time ago. Sorry just don’t want to get us associated with such extremely unethical behavior. Frankly it ought to be punishable in the justice system.

Good point!

I can add that the name Norwegian is associated with the Airline company here in the nordics. So using just Norwegian in the headline is unfortunate.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#73

Post by jeltz »

ryandrake wrote: post #47
jacquesm wrote: post #36

That's borderline criminal. To blatantly lie about the risks - especially elderly passengers - people are taking should be actionable in some way. These emails will come back to haunt them if family of future casualties sues them. I sincerely hope they go out of business.

Then again, who is stupid enough take medical advice from a vacation salesman? These customers have agency and are ultimately the decision makers. What this company is doing is unethical, but we all need to be responsible for the decisions we make. If I decide to go on a cruise right now, knowing what has been going on, it’s not the company’s fault if I get sick.

Sure, but scamming the gullible is still both criminal and immoral. And similarly intentional dangerous misrepresentation of facts like this should be criminal (and maybe already is, I do not know American law that well) even if you would have to be an idiot to actually believe it.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#74

Post by saagarjha »

program_whiz wrote: post #68

Meta point: do we have to accept deception as a necessary part of sales? It seems strange that we accept deception and manipulation as necessary ingredients in the market, and that its on the buyer when they "get duped". But couldn't we have a standard where literally anything anyone says to a customer must be true, or was not false to the knowledge of the person saying it? Scammy warranties, timeshares, and other "g…

> But couldn't we have a standard where literally anything anyone says to a customer must be true, or was not false to the knowledge of the person saying it?

This would be hard to prove beyond existing rules, and what would you do about opinionated statements?

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#75

Post by adwww »

eumenides1 wrote: post #64
socialdemocrat wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian I want to point out that there are no Norwegian owners of Norwegian Cruise Lines. It is to my knowledge fully American owned. It was Norwegian long time ago. Sorry just don’t want to get us associated with such extremely unethical behavior. Frankly it ought to be punishable in the justice system.

That will teach you to sell your business to America/International conglomerates! /s I wonder if a country can force a multinational to stop using a country name because of misrepresentation. i.e Norway (tourism?) forces Norwegian Cruises to stop using its name.

Iceland the country has sued Iceland the British supermarket several times over various trademark and naming issues.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#76

Post by turc1656 »

hannob wrote: post #50

This is of course all horrible, but I seriously wonder who at this point thinks: "Let's book a trip on a cruise ship right now!"

I can see it. If you are healthy and you know that for most people the virus is mild and the mortality rate is roughly on par with the flu (they previously had it higher but the latest numbers look to be more like the flu at 0.1%, mostly all elderly or already ill), and you know the ships are likely to have less people on them, and you can likely get a deal, and they'll probably treat you like gold if you go...yeah I can see it.

Hell, just writing that out actually makes me think twice about calling and booking something. But I have young children and my wife would be unnecessarily worried the whole time and she doesn't even like cruises.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#77

Post by Symbiote »

sharken wrote: post #72
socialdemocrat wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian I want to point out that there are no Norwegian owners of Norwegian Cruise Lines. It is to my knowledge fully American owned. It was Norwegian long time ago. Sorry just don’t want to get us associated with such extremely unethical behavior. Frankly it ought to be punishable in the justice system.

Good point! I can add that the name Norwegian is associated with the Airline company here in the nordics. So using just Norwegian in the headline is unfortunate.

I would think that association holds all over Europe. They are the 9th largest European airline, with 130 destinations.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#78

Post by 12xo »

mech1234 wrote: post #71
program_whiz wrote: post #68

Meta point: do we have to accept deception as a necessary part of sales? It seems strange that we accept deception and manipulation as necessary ingredients in the market, and that its on the buyer when they "get duped". But couldn't we have a standard where literally anything anyone says to a customer must be true, or was not false to the knowledge of the person saying it? Scammy warranties, timeshares, and other "g…

Advertising fraud is already illegal. The situations where case law dictates what is illegal are varied and nuanced. As a side note, there are many categories of claims that fall in neither "provably true" nor "provably untrue", and enforcing upon these claims is tricky. You can google for "advertising fraud precedent" "advertising fraud case law" and "advertising fraud case studies" for more information.

Right... That’s why you have an “unlimited” data plan that is “guaranteed” or it’s “free”...

There is no such thing as truth in advertising. There is only a Make Lawyers Rich lawsuit..

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#79

Post by [deleted] »

saagarjha wrote: post #74
program_whiz wrote: post #68

Meta point: do we have to accept deception as a necessary part of sales? It seems strange that we accept deception and manipulation as necessary ingredients in the market, and that its on the buyer when they "get duped". But couldn't we have a standard where literally anything anyone says to a customer must be true, or was not false to the knowledge of the person saying it? Scammy warranties, timeshares, and other "g…

> But couldn't we have a standard where literally anything anyone says to a customer must be true, or was not false to the knowledge of the person saying it? This would be hard to prove beyond existing rules, and what would you do about opinionated statements?

[deleted]

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#80

Post by jonplackett »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian I want to point out that there are no Norwegian owners of Norwegian Cruise Lines. It is to my knowledge fully American owned. It was Norwegian long time ago. Sorry just don’t want to get us associated with such extremely unethical behavior. Frankly it ought to be punishable in the justice system.

I read the headline and though 'Norway! Surly they're a decent country' and was relieved to see it's a big corp. Unsurprising to see lying in sales tactics but this is really bad. This must be criminal somehow? Fraud at least?
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