Live data from Hacker News

We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

meshtastic.org

91–100 of 176 posts

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#91
This is awesome! It looks like it could do several things for which I wanted to have a device.

Offline GPS tracker with very long run time for hiking. I'd like up to one month run time. On the other hand I only need low time resolution, one waypoint each minute. It also does not need to send the location anywhere, storing it local is fine.

Offline/Online GPS tracker for paragliding. Battery for one day, but also high resolution tracking, about one waypoint per second.

Long range communication extender for my mobile phone that does not require infrastructure like base stations. (For the prepper in me)

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#93
post #50

Note that there are limits to how large a mesh network can scale, it's likely to start running into problems with several hundred users. You can scale larger by limiting data to short text messages, but you'll probably never be able to handle more than 10,000 users, unless you can find a way to create high bandwidth backbone links between clusters of users. There has been a lot of research on this in the wireless sen…

yes, this is targeted at hikers etc... so typical max mesh size of about 20 and I bet it would dying by the time a channel had 100 people.

Why? Even 200 in a small area, say a ski resort, mountain bike race, or similar seems perfectly reasonable. Sure not 200 people typing as fast as they can, but plenty for the normal chatter I hear over sms. Especially if you keep the messages short and have a latency of a few minutes be acceptable.

Using the family radios (often $30 ish) on hiking trails, parks, amusement parks, etc. I usually hear minimal chatter, just things like "Anyone seen Bob?", "meet at lift #4", "Lunch in 30m?", "Linda stopped to retie her shoes", etc.

Check out js8call if you want to see how to handle 100s of people with very little bandwidth. Sure it's designed for ham radio frequencies and covers 1000s of miles instead of 1000s of feet, but still man portable

A phone, bluetooth sound card, a HF transceiver, and an antenna is all you need. Generally hams are proud when they get better than 1000 miles per watt.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#94
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also which of the ISM bands are valid in which country. (We sold off the bottom half the 915 band here to telcos, so only the upper half of it is available in .au)

ooh. good to know. here's what we are doing now for the regions we know. Someone is sending in a PR soon for the extra 440ish band in EU soon. https://github.com/meshtastic/Meshtastic-esp32/blob/master/s...

I think it would be very helpful to other hobbyists if once you have worked out all the limitations in each country, to make a guide or infographic about all the rules and limitations.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#95

The idea of these radio mesh network things is great. The reality is terrible because radio waves need line of sight unless you've got a repeater. This is completely impractical when hiking, or in a city filled with buildings. They end up with crazy short range between devices and you need an implausibly long string of them to get from a person off the grid to a mesh point on the grid. The only exception to this bein…

Dunno, I think one of the biggest weakness of various ham related technologies (and yes I have my general) is the assumption that everyone is online all the time. Trying to communicate with a few dozen people is very inefficient with amateur radio in general. It's usually voice, usually assumes everyone is doing nothing but listening, is listening continuously and has perfect reception. God forbid someone is driving, hiking aggressive terrain, or a group of 10 people is online only 60% of the time each.

Most of the cheap ham stuff assumes a perfect repeater already to do the heavy lifting, which is nice when you have it, but very frustrating when you don't.

I do wish that ham or consumer devices supported digital modes, peer to peer, store and forward, push, pull, query, etc. Js8call supports this, so you can do things like ask when someone was last seen, leave messages on 3rd parties, ask 3rd parties to forward, etc. So even if each radio is online part of the time, and parties that want to talk can not directly hear each other things work just fine. It's amazing to even think about, communicating several magnitudes below the noise floor, power levels so low that hams are proud when they get less than 1 watt per 1000 miles!

Imagine standing on the west cost of the USA, shining a 5 watt flashlight at the sky, having it bounce off the sky, to land, and again into the sky, and again to the last to someone 1000s of miles away... and they can decode your signal. Amazing stuff.

I do wonder what the smallest package you could fit a 1 watt bluetooth connected HF radio in to enable any phone to talk js8call.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#96
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the feedback. I think this project is a little bit different, we are focusing for now on making a nice end-user friendly consumer product using hardware that is already shipping from various aliexpress vendors. our tag line is "An opensource hiking, pilot, skiing, Signal-App-extending GPS mesh communicator for $30" We are currently using RadioHead mesh library, but we might shift to a common implementation…

Keep the hacking ability. Your large target demographic may not use or need it, but tinkerers will hype your product for free, at least in theory. See the RTL_SDR as an example, although it is a low cost DVB tuner.

> Keep the hacking ability.

Unofficially, CEO of one of the biggest vendors of dvb-t receivers in my country said that he isn't that technical, but he knows very well that he is still biggest vendor because his devices can be hacked.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#97
post #2

Hi ya'll, so we've spent a few weeks making device software and an android app to convert a $30 chinese gps/radio into a long range mesh radio for hikers. It is working fairly well now (though still an alpha) and we'd love more people to try it and/or have fun coding on it. We got about 30 users (and some devs from this hackaday article) but we'd love more users and devs to join this happy-happy project: https://hack…

This is so cool... I spent six months doing research on a routing layer for mesh Android devices (using Bluetooth and Wifi). This would probably make a lot of what I originally tried out a lot easier. Edit: The issue was making a jump from a local cluster to another cluster far away as local messaging was easy but the further out, the harder it became to maintain connectivity since the amount of devices entering and…

My solution for this kind of thing is to support a router that connects to the internet. Then on the internet side run a DHT so all the internet routers/gateways can find each other. Each router would keep track of the devices they have seen recently, and publish them to a DHT. Much how running a bittorrent client for a particular torrent publishes that fact to the DHT so anyone on the planet can find peers of that torrent.

So if Bob at a ski resort in Colorado want to message someone in Germany his message would propagate around the mesh until a gateway noticed it was for a client that hasn't ever been seen by that gateway. The gateway/router would do a DHT lookup, and would find a router in Germany had seen that user recently and forward the message there. Next time that router heard (directly or indirectly) that the recipient was online it would forward it (directly or through store and forward) to the user. Sure this process might take minutes, but generally it would still be useful.

Imagine an island like Haiti or Puerto Rico is hit by a storm and only one in 5000 people has a cell signal or sat uplink. Add a mesh and just a few uplinks for the whole island and important communications could get through. Maybe even putting a sat uplink on a car that could drive around and allow messages in/out even just once a day could be quite valuable. This of course needs to be combined with store/forward messages and the other various delay tolerant network features.

Seems much more useful than using HF radios to scan the planet for open Ham email gateways. I was rather amused to hear that to communicate across Puerto Rico they often ended up sending messages through an email gateway they could reach in Italy... just to get messages across the island.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#98
It's not a new idea, but it's really a cool project, it just seems difficult to democratize.

Problem #1: if users need a custom antenna, it's already a barrier. /me dreams about the IEEE people designing standards that would enable smartphones to use mesh networking... I guess a tiny antenna that can be attached to a smartphone could also make it viable. If the antenna is not bigger than the phone, it would certainly be marketed.

In my view, mesh radio could possibly compete with traditional ISPs, for certain uses, so this kind of tech might not be funded for obvious reasons.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#100

Howdy, as the founder of the Serval Mesh adhoc networking protocols and hardware, what I would look for in a new radio is: 1. True packet radio mode, that doesn't hide the radioness of the link etc, but lets the programmer use it's strengths. 2. UART link, ideally using 3DR/RFD900 compatible connector (then we can include it directly in our existing systems, and so can others). 3. Field-flashable, but with robust pro…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN