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We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

meshtastic.org

31–40 of 176 posts

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

915 MHz goes a lot farther than 2.4 GHz. At very low bit rates you need very little SNR. There is probably very low noise out in hiking environments. Yes, attenuation due to terrain is going to be a killer, but my experience with non line of sight 900 MHz links blasting through trees leads me to believe it would be workable for low bit rate data between a series of hikers along the same trail. It is sending only loca…

You're wrong. It's a mistake to treat terrain and foliage as the same thing. I have extensive experience with 3 completely different, narrowband and wideband, 902-928 MHz radio data systems as well as just playing around in the range with my software defined radios (hackrf, rtlsdr, etc). 902-928 has almost no advantage over 2.4 GHz when it comes to line of sight issues with terrain. In fact, it's more problematic due…

It sounds like you agree 900 MHz will be much better than 2.4 GHz in this non line of sight application so long as the obstructions are trees and foliage and not terrain.

I would expect to be able to send a few bytes between two stations maybe 400m apart through non-line of sight forest with 900 MHz and both stations at the same elevation. Certainly the grandparent quoting miles would be for mountain top to mountain top.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#32
post #19

Not sure if this is "good" advice, but this would make for a very appealing kickstarter: cool gadget with very useful functionality for popular activities (music festivals, hiking, skiing) that could even help in an emergency. It hits a lot of the right notes. Possible that when you're further along you can have a kickstarter for a commercial version that's officially created by the open-source project. The more (mut…

There are already a couple of companies doing similar kickstarters I think. But we want this to be a non profit open source project for fun.

We are using a GPL license, but if someone wants to eventually sell devices (as long as they obey the GPL) with our code we think that's great.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#33

That’s an awesome project. I was interested in LoRa for the same reason. I’m an iOS dev and paraglider myself so I can help you with the iOS app. Let’s chat

Oh would love to! Would you mind posting on our devchat and we can talk more? https://gitter.im/Meshtastic/community

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#35

I guess my only advice is make sure the software keeps to the duty cycle limits of the license free band. And note that different countries may have different regulations on what is allowed on the frequency LoRa uses, if using it is even allowed.

Oh yes, totally agree. We have a rough duty cycle spreadsheet now and we will be careful to obey the rules ;-)

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

915 MHz goes a lot farther than 2.4 GHz. At very low bit rates you need very little SNR. There is probably very low noise out in hiking environments. Yes, attenuation due to terrain is going to be a killer, but my experience with non line of sight 900 MHz links blasting through trees leads me to believe it would be workable for low bit rate data between a series of hikers along the same trail. It is sending only loca…

You're wrong. It's a mistake to treat terrain and foliage as the same thing. I have extensive experience with 3 completely different, narrowband and wideband, 902-928 MHz radio data systems as well as just playing around in the range with my software defined radios (hackrf, rtlsdr, etc). 902-928 has almost no advantage over 2.4 GHz when it comes to line of sight issues with terrain. In fact, it's more problematic due…

This stack overflow question has some nice pictures of the LoRa "chirps". They use rising/falling frequency modulation to allow operation at startlingly low signal to noise ratios.

(Also, the hardware they're using is fairly generic, and pretty much all the vendors selling them offer them in 915/920MHz and also 868MHz and 433MHz variants. I've seen claims of over 10km range with 433MHz LoRa gear without special antennas or clear line-of-sight...)

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#37

Gotta love ESP32s, huh? It's great to see more affordable "commodity-style" boards with some extra radios built in. This looks like a very cool project - I might pick up a few of those 'T-beam' boards and see if some people want to try taking a hike with them. Thanks for sharing!

no worries. if (when ;-)) you encounter problems just post on our gitter channel.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#39
post #4

Maybe resubmit this post so the link works. I would love this for music festivals. They have some solutions but they are hundreds of dollars. If people in the group could put this on a backpack it would be a game-changer. Music festivals also have a big problem with internet access. If they could put host a few powerful repeaters in the middle with electrical and have 5% of attendees (staff) with these they could pro…

Solutions of hundreds of dollars? For what exactly?

Reminds me of the movie Hackers where they used buzzers. And why not? The only thing you gotta do is use pre-planned keywords/acronyms.

I went to several (music) festivals, big ones between 2002 till 2004 with a few smaller gigs later until 2009 or so. Back then we just used SMS or phone call. I didn't even always have a plan during the mentioned years. Especially outside the country (and NL is small) it was always a surprise to get the next phone bill (one time I paid something like 30 EUR per megabyte, in Serbia). Within the EU, these work with your normal plan nowadays.

I don't know how it is nowadays, but back then on large festivals providers would put up extra (mobile) GSM antennas at the location. I assume they still do that. I can imagine there's a lot of smartphones up in the air to record the magical moment (and ruin it for the people behind you). That alone is a reason why I wouldn't wanna go.

A dumbphone seems still clever if you go outside the country. A rugged one goes for say 30-50 EUR or so. It won't contain or give access to your whole life if it gets confiscated, no social media means you can focus on your stay, and you can still contact authorities or friends if required. Just make sure you add the personal information of those you need to contact (should be on your SIM, though possibly that's too much info as well). Oh, and the screen won't break or get damaged (if it does /care), and who cares if your dumbphone gets stolen. I suppose people generally take the risk, but I got burned once (got a digital camera as birthday present worth ~300 EUR in 2004 and it got stolen after I had it for less than a week). You can always give it away or sell it afterwards (like a real burner) or reuse it for the next journey.

Now, back when I went to music festivals, you'd sortof stay together cause you could find each other but it was a bit annoying. If you could automate it, like you can give your position with WhatsApp, then that'd be great. However, with WhatsApp you decide who can access your location, while with this solution its available to all. That might not be what you want.

Other sports like hiking, skiing I can imagine to use this technology. Even people who live "In The Wild" could meet up with other total strangers, if that's your thing. I mean imagine using this in some huge forest in Canada, or on Greenland where you suddenly notice another life form.

Re: We're making an open-source $30 GPS/mesh radio, would like advice

#40

I guess my only advice is make sure the software keeps to the duty cycle limits of the license free band. And note that different countries may have different regulations on what is allowed on the frequency LoRa uses, if using it is even allowed.

Also which of the ISM bands are valid in which country. (We sold off the bottom half the 915 band here to telcos, so only the upper half of it is available in .au)
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