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Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

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Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#31

Post by zozbot234 »

justinmk wrote: post #22
aeturnum wrote: post #10

From the previous discussion, plorkyeran[1] found the email that they suspect got ESR banned: http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license-discuss_lists.... I'm not familiar with the culture or standards of the OSI but I don't think I'd wanna participate in a community where this kind of engagement is normal, so good for them I suppose? Edit: replaced plorkyeran's account link with their post. I also now notice othe…

What parts of that email are so objectionable?

The "toxic loonytoon" part, referencing a prominent candidate to the OSI board? I mean, surely we can all have our own opinions about any candidate, but the optics aren't that good.

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#32

Post by nabla9 »

justinmk wrote: post #22
aeturnum wrote: post #10

From the previous discussion, plorkyeran[1] found the email that they suspect got ESR banned: http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license-discuss_lists.... I'm not familiar with the culture or standards of the OSI but I don't think I'd wanna participate in a community where this kind of engagement is normal, so good for them I suppose? Edit: replaced plorkyeran's account link with their post. I also now notice othe…

What parts of that email are so objectionable?

insane political rant part probably.

>> * The "Persona Non Grata" clause is best understood as an attempt to paralyze resistance to such political ratfucking by subverting th freedom-centered principles of OSI. It is very unlikely to be the last such attempt.

> Make no mistake; we are under attack. If we do not recognize the nature of the attack and reject it, we risk watching the best features of the open-source subculture be smothered by identity politics and vulgar Marxism.

I mean, if you are this much out of touch with reality, maybe it's time to quit Facebook, Twitter etc.

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#33

Post by [deleted] »

justinmk wrote: post #18
turbinerneiter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read ESRs blog. He has gone insane after 9/11. He thinks homosexuals are pedophile. I have the cathedral and the Bazaar at home, and I live that book, but he isn't part of the healthy open source community anymore.

> He thinks homosexuals are pedophile. Do you have a primary source for that? This sounds like a cancel-culture rumor intended to attach negative ideas to a person in order to discredit them.

[deleted]

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#34

Post by Barrin92 »

justinmk wrote: post #22
aeturnum wrote: post #10

From the previous discussion, plorkyeran[1] found the email that they suspect got ESR banned: http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license-discuss_lists.... I'm not familiar with the culture or standards of the OSI but I don't think I'd wanna participate in a community where this kind of engagement is normal, so good for them I suppose? Edit: replaced plorkyeran's account link with their post. I also now notice othe…

What parts of that email are so objectionable?

conflating a code of conduct with "political ratfucking" (whatever that means) and going into a rant about political correctness and Marxism is at best incoherent, not exactly original and at worst paranoid and adds nothing of value.

It makes you sound like you're one bad day away from chasing swans through the park nakedly and it isn't really productive in any community.

People like Eric need to come to terms with the fact that being a productive contributor is not an excuse for anti-social behaviour, that open source communities these days are huge and people from many places who may not get your jokes or your political discussions are participating, and that cultures change.

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#35

Post by wyldfire »

evv wrote: post #3
phaemon wrote: post #2

So, does anyone know what exactly he was banned for?

Here's a previous thread on the topic [1]. From what I can gather, Eric was arguing against allowing "ethical source" licenses from being designated as "Open Source" by the institute. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22518370

Here's Coraline Ada Ehmke's response [1].

IMO the "Persona Non Grata" clause is a mistake and ESR is right to oppose it. I don't agree with ESR on a lot of things but we should all agree that licenses that support/permit/include these clauses are not "Open Source". This endorsement from OSI is important and I don't think it should apply.

[1] https://threader.app/thread/1233089062430478336

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#37

Post by canada_dry »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #14
silverreads wrote: post #5

Anyone unaffiliated with a large commercial organization is being systematically rooted out and destroyed in the free software community. I'm honestly ashamed to be a part of this community right now. ESR has done SO MUCH for us, but doesn't align with a position some wishy washy corporate PR departments have OK'd, so he's OUT. There is no "be nice" rule in life, and doubly so for corporate America. This is disgracef…

Read ESRs blog. He has gone insane after 9/11. He thinks homosexuals are pedophile. I have the cathedral and the Bazaar at home, and I live that book, but he isn't part of the healthy open source community anymore.

“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.”

I'd say this might be case-in-point.

Banning ESR will, of course, only reinforce and further his fury and disdain for what he seems to believe is political correctness gone awry.

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#38

Post by xyzzyz »

zozbot234 wrote: post #15
phaemon wrote: post #2

So, does anyone know what exactly he was banned for?

From reading the comment thread on ESR's blog, it seems that he went as far as referring to a prominent candidate to the upcoming OSI board elections as a toxic loony nutcase, and that this message was subsequently scrubbed from the email archive. Either way, this puts OSI in a bit of a bind, for obvious reasons.

The crucial question is whether anyone would be banned for calling ESR a toxic lunatic, and I think the answer clearly is no. There are no bad tactics, only bad targets, and the only thing that matters is, as Lenin said, who will overtake whom.

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#40

Post by woofie11 »

I wanted to address one error in this article: "Richard Stallman being compelled to resign from the Free Software Foundation."

RMS was not compelled to resign from the FSF.

RMS decided to resign since he felt it was for the good of the organization, and he could no longer be effective there.

While there was a lot of external pressure, there was zero pressure from within. It was RMS trying to do the right thing.

My major concern about the sequence of events there were external appearances. It seems that problem materialized.

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