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Gates Foundation program will issue home testing kits for Covid 19 in Seattle

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Re: Gates Foundation program will issue home testing kits for Covid 19 in Seattle

#231

Post by craftinator »

anigbrowl wrote: post #100
craftinator wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe before a surgery, gather all of the hospital staff who are going to attend, and record a video while saying "I do not consent to working with anyone from out of network. If you are an out of network physician, I do not consent to be your patient." That ought to be interesting in court if they bill you. Really, the onus of responsibility is between your insurance company and the hospital (i.e. paying and billing…

Look up a legal concept called quantum meruit - you can be on the hook for things you didn't consent, on the grounds that your needs were not foreseeable and a reasonable person would have consented if they were conscious at the time. I am of course over-simplifying but HN isn't the place for a long discourse on medical litigation strategies.

I am familiar with the concept (still think it's insane though; I value my freedom of choice more than my well being). I came up with this idea because it records me expressly refusing consent to the doctors if they are not in network. If they still operate, and are not in network, I'll see them in court with video evidence of malpractice and mayhem. I'm sure in the US legal system this has a low probability of success, but hey, maybe I can crucify them on the news for it.

Re: Gates Foundation program will issue home testing kits for Covid 19 in Seattle

#232

Post by Ididntdothis »

craftinator wrote: post #230
Ididntdothis wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly haven't dealt with these guys. The hospital can charge whatever it feels like and the insurance pays whatever it feels like. And the patient sits in the middle and has to figure it out.

I have dealt with them, once, and I got the pokey end of the stick. I honestly don't know what would work, but I think operating on someone who has specified that they don't consent is kinda the definition of criminal; I think Mayhem would be the official charge.

You would think that repeatedly charging people for procedures that never have been performed would also be viewed as criminal but they get away with it all the time.

Re: Gates Foundation program will issue home testing kits for Covid 19 in Seattle

#233

Post by lern_too_spel »

joe_the_user wrote: post #228
lern_too_spel wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this situation MEANS that these other countries are failing to control the infection I never disputed that. > Sure, I shouldn't imply Korea does just better treatment You didn't imply that. You stated explicitly that Korea does better treatment when that statement is based on a gross misunderstanding of CFR data and said you were going to spread that misinformation. ("I darn well intent [sic] to keep pointing to th…

Fine, what I should have said for absolute clarity is: "China and Korea have effectively dealt with the virus, infections in both those areas have been declining. And Korea now is effectively the lowest fatality rate for any of the effected countries which points to excellent surveillance and adequate treatment." Instead of: "China and Korea have effectively treated the virus, infections in both those areas have been…

> And Korea now is effectively the lowest fatality rate for any of the effected countries which points to excellent surveillance and adequate treatment."

No, it doesn't. All it points to is that the cases are still active and have not had a chance to die. You cannot draw any other conclusions from that fatality data.

> I would note in China's case, with infections declining everywhere, the fatality rate outside Hubei is fairly low also.

For exactly the same reason. These infections are newer and have not had a chance to die. With each update, the CFR outside Hubei has increased, as expected.

> I think Korean model - ie, lots of testing - looks good in total

I agree that more testing is better. Why do you keep bringing this up? It has nothing to do with the fatality rate.

Re: Gates Foundation program will issue home testing kits for Covid 19 in Seattle

#235

Post by zouhair »

enumjorge wrote: post #199
zouhair wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is that way because rich people like Bill made it so. They worked hard at it and still do.

Saying that the US reached its current position in the world solely due to the work of rich people is an incredibly simplistic view of reality. It also doesn't address the point the parent comment was trying to make. Bill Gates worked hard and now he's rich because of it--why does that mean U.S. citizens need to depend on him to stay healthy?

Sorry but no. He worked hard, sure, for a bit. But he is not as rich as he is because of said work. He is rich because of the hard work of others.

Re: Gates Foundation program will issue home testing kits for Covid 19 in Seattle

#236

Post by joe_the_user »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #233
joe_the_user wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, what I should have said for absolute clarity is: "China and Korea have effectively dealt with the virus, infections in both those areas have been declining. And Korea now is effectively the lowest fatality rate for any of the effected countries which points to excellent surveillance and adequate treatment." Instead of: "China and Korea have effectively treated the virus, infections in both those areas have been…

> And Korea now is effectively the lowest fatality rate for any of the effected countries which points to excellent surveillance and adequate treatment." No, it doesn't. All it points to is that the cases are still active and have not had a chance to die. You cannot draw any other conclusions from that fatality data. > I would note in China's case, with infections declining everywhere, the fatality rate outside Hubei…

I agree that more testing is better. Why do you keep bringing this up? It has nothing to do with the fatality rate.

TL; DR; Without sufficient testing, hospitals get overwhelmed and death rate skyrockets. Is this "irrelevant".

...

My Gawd, you are the one who launched the massive detour on fatality rates. The topic of my first comment and topic of the OP was test, now like three days ago. You chimed in several posts down with the argument about immediate death rates not being final death, which I indeed didn't make my clear enough but which wasn't crucial to my point, which was and is about testing and related, about the Korean model being other countries should look to. I guess should say that Korean being at least adequate comes from my reading of press reports on Korea and not just statistical values but gruesomely technical do we want to get.

The thing is, I said from the start and I've clarified above, the fatality rate is an important proxy for how well a given country or area is doing as a combination of treatment and testing (but mostly testing). The infection rate is exponential everywhere the infection is not aggressively controlled so a high mortality rate means the country finding infection only having dying people walk in the doors of hospitals.

In that time, we've seen Italy, with a higher mortality rate spike in infections and mortality, now with 10x the death toll of Korea. And yes, as expected, the mortality rate in Korea is inching up but the infect rate is now steadily declining and it seems clear the total deaths there are going to be much less than Italy.

Yes, TESTING is my primary interest and advocating the Korean model related to that. The thing is that a look at the situation in Korea shows that the whole of society has mobilized, testing and treatment has been reorganized for the particular problems COVID presents - there are regular hospitals and COVID hospitals (or some equivalent).

Re: Gates Foundation program will issue home testing kits for Covid 19 in Seattle

#237

Post by lern_too_spel »

joe_the_user wrote: post #236
lern_too_spel wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And Korea now is effectively the lowest fatality rate for any of the effected countries which points to excellent surveillance and adequate treatment." No, it doesn't. All it points to is that the cases are still active and have not had a chance to die. You cannot draw any other conclusions from that fatality data. > I would note in China's case, with infections declining everywhere, the fatality rate outside Hubei…

I agree that more testing is better. Why do you keep bringing this up? It has nothing to do with the fatality rate. TL; DR; Without sufficient testing, hospitals get overwhelmed and death rate skyrockets. Is this "irrelevant". ... My Gawd, you are the one who launched the massive detour on fatality rates. The topic of my first comment and topic of the OP was test, now like three days ago. You chimed in several posts…

> Without sufficient testing, hospitals get overwhelmed and death rate skyrockets. Is this "irrelevant".

It is irrelevant to the narrow question of whether the data show that Korea has reduced the fatality rate, which is the point being argued. Deaths from heart disease are irrelevant to the same discussion.

> My Gawd, you are the one who launched the massive detour on fatality rates.

It is not a detour. It is the single point being argued. You made an erroneous claim together with a statement that you intend to repeat it. I corrected that claim to prevent you from repeating it. When discussing that correction, it doesn't matter if you also made correct claims like that 2+2=4.

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