Tips for the depressed • Hacker News Board

Re: Tips for the depressed

#121

Post by clarry » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #20

starpilot wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a chronically obese person: Just stop eating. To a person in poverty: Just save up money and find a job.

It seems to me that the real problem is that these issues have root causes which really need to be addressed, and that's why telling the chronically obese people "just stop eating" doesn't work, because it isn't addressing the root cause. The problem, however, is that addressing the root cause is extremely difficult, or even impossible (for those trying to give advice), so people don't know what else to say. For the…

> So what else do you do or say?

I don't know, but if one can't think of anything better, then I think it's better to shut up, or just acknowledge the problem and be supportive but refrain from offering unwanted non-solutions that implicitly blame the victim and trivialize their problem (you aren't "just doing X" therefore it's on you) and simultaneously frustrate/anger/depress them because "just do X" is impossible (or not a solution to their problem).

Re: Tips for the depressed

#122

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:24 PM UTC

Jare wrote: post #109

agumonkey wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

crazy how the first step is often the most important one

And every step is the first since the last one.

but there's a huge entry cost.

Re: Tips for the depressed

#123

Post by dlsso » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:26 PM UTC

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #102

dlsso wrote: post #17

There's some good stuff here, but it completely skips gratitude. Focusing on what you're grateful for is one of the more powerful and best proven methods to combat depression. I've been through clinical depression and consider it the key to my recovery.

what if you find it difficult to have gratitude? you want to be grateful for what you have, but you're not, and can't explain why. if you don't care about anything, meaning you have no gratitude, how do you jumpstart this process?

Great question. I wouldn't worry about feeling grateful. Just reminding yourself of "what you have," as you phrased it, is enough.

When we're depressed we have a tendency to fall into the mindset that everything is bad. Reminding yourself that there is something good in your life helps break that cycle. If you can make it a habit your brain actually gets better at finding the positives and it starts to create a positive feedback loop.

P.S. If you want to learn how to make habits easier I highly recommend Atomic Habits https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40121378-atomic-habits?f...

Re: Tips for the depressed

#124

Post by sstangl » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #102

dlsso wrote: post #17

There's some good stuff here, but it completely skips gratitude. Focusing on what you're grateful for is one of the more powerful and best proven methods to combat depression. I've been through clinical depression and consider it the key to my recovery.

what if you find it difficult to have gratitude? you want to be grateful for what you have, but you're not, and can't explain why. if you don't care about anything, meaning you have no gratitude, how do you jumpstart this process?

There are two options I'm familiar with:

1. Without wondering if you sincerely mean it, make a point to say "thank you." Typically if you are depressed you will be alone, and so it is possible to recognize situations where you took an action now to make something easier for yourself later: for example, doing the dishes now instead of waiting for them to pile up. When that happens, verbally thank yourself on behalf of your future self. If you're capable of doing this, it jump-starts gratitude after a while.

2. Instead of feeling gratitude for things you perceive as positive, look for things that you perceive as neutral. The majority of your sensory experience is neutral. If your emotions are very negative, instead of looking for a dichotomy between negative and positive, look for a dichotomy between negative and neutral. You will perceive that neutral is not-negative. Because neutral is not-negative, increased perception of neutral sensations is a positive. If you perceive neutral sensations as positive for long enough, it jump-starts gratitude after a while.

Re: Tips for the depressed

#125

Post by uoaei » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

Jare wrote: post #109

agumonkey wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

crazy how the first step is often the most important one

And every step is the first since the last one.

That sounds inspirational but it just comes across as daunting/insurmountable to those who haven't gotten used to the idea of taking that first step.

Re: Tips for the depressed

#126

Post by _qwfv » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:32 PM UTC

starpilot wrote: post #115

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope they work for some, but for me, SSRI's are frankly, trash. All the downsides with none of the upsides. They absolutely work for many people. Unfortunately, many people deprive themselves of SSRI trials because they read too many negative anecdotes online. If you're seriously depressed for an extended period of time, it's worth a trial of an SSRI medication. If it doesn't work, just taper off and be done with…

> They absolutely work for many people. Unfortunately, many people deprive themselves of SSRI trials because they read too many negative anecdotes online. If you're seriously depressed for an extended period of time, it's worth a trial of an SSRI medication. If it doesn't work, just taper off and be done with it. At least you'll know. SSRI's do not work. Linked elsewhere in this thread: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p…

A newer meta analysis from 2018 says they do work: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5889788/

> We identified 28 552 citations and of these included 522 trials comprising 116 477 participants. In terms of efficacy, all antidepressants were more effective than placebo

Anecdotally, SSRIs do work for some people, and it can be life changing.

Re: Tips for the depressed

#127

Post by revscat » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #90

Swizec wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As s as formerly depressed person I can attest that this is the only thing that worked. DO stuff. Even if you feel you can’t, even if it feels hopeless. Do it anyway. Somehow through the act of forcing yourself you find you’re actually enjoying yourself, are making progress and feeling better . Saying this is also the quickest way to get shunned out of the room by anyone with depression. Fun fact: research has shown…

> As s as formerly depressed person I can attest that this is the only thing that worked. DO stuff. Even if you feel you can’t, even if it feels hopeless. Do it anyway. > Somehow through the act of forcing yourself you find you’re actually enjoying yourself, are making progress and feeling better. I tried this approach. The "you find you're actually enjoying yourself" part never came. It left me profoundly exhausted,…

I had a similar experience to yours. Divorce. Heartache. Depression amplified by..a lot. Tried to get out. Joined a couple of groups on Meetup.

Didn't work. Moderately enjoyed it. Would get home, then... crash. Back into the spiral.

Fast forward a couple of years. In a better place, somewhat. Try again, what the hell I'm bored and can only play so much HZD and BotW. It was surprisingly better this time. Started making friends. Texting.

Feels good. Better, at least.

So maybe you aren't in a place where that works for you right now. Maybe it will one day. Don't close yourself off to it completely, though. It's helped others, so who knows.

Re: Tips for the depressed

#128

Post by retonom » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

I have struggled with "depression" for decades. Now I'm healed. I went to countless psychiatrists, took drugs and everything. I didn't really help much. I told them I feel bad, they labeled me "depressive" without trying to find out what is really going on. In the the end I had to find it out by myself. The depression was just a symptom. The main cause of it was a social phobia. None of the therapists ever addressed this. Other factors: unforgiveness and my own frustration that I wasn't aware of in many situations. So I started peeling off all these layers. I just didn't really know myself, was so full of inhibitions.

Often depression isn't something you should be afraid of. Neither is it something that you just "have" like a sickness. There may be reasons for the depression and maybe you can dig them out.

I just skimmed the article but what I've read seems to be how to cope with depression, not how to address the underlying issues. Better try to find out where it comes from, if possible.

Re: Tips for the depressed

#129

Post by MegaButts » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

notRobot wrote: post #103

ditonal wrote: post #19

I largely agree with all the advice here. I dropped out of college due to depression, then I torched my tech career with a manic episode that led me straight from a FAANG SWE job to an involuntary psych ward patient for a month, which was followed by a half year brutal depression. I’ve done a lot of research and I think psychiatry is pseudoscience and antidepressants are largely placebo. I’m really on the mindfulness…

> I’ve done a lot of research and I think psychiatry is pseudoscience and antidepressants are largely placebo. Even if they didn't work for you, making claims like this on a public forum is very irresponsible for you, and can be very dangerous for those who really need the help. Please refrain from making such statements unless you're a medical professional.

I think people should be allowed to share their opinions, even if they're controversial. Just because you disagree doesn't mean he's wrong (nor am I saying he's right).

I have no dog in this fight, but you don't have to Google much to find studies that cast doubt on the efficacy of anti-depressants.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325767

Re: Tips for the depressed

#130

Post by _qwfv » Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #41

htk wrote: post #25

AFTER FIFTY YEARS, billions of dollars of intensive marketing campaigns, and tens of billions of dollars of profits for pharmaceutical companies, it is still far from clear that antidepressant drugs are any more effective than placebo. The only group of people who have demonstrably benefited from the widespread use of antidepressants are pharmaceutical executives and investors. I don't think this is accurate or helpf…

> I don't think this is accurate Yes it is accurate. It is very accurate. The garbage studies routinely dumped on us by Big Pharma have been continually debunked, reversed, and retracted after the raw data comes out (often in lawsuits). Nevermind the complete absence of long-term studies or any studies that reflect the actually usage of these drugs in the real world.

> We identified 28 552 citations and of these included 522 trials comprising 116 477 participants. In terms of efficacy, all antidepressants were more effective than placebo.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

I dunno, studies seem to suggest otherwise. I think it's terribly irresponsible to be telling people not to take medications that can help them.