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Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

bbc.com

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Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#621

Post by cm2187 »

exolymph wrote: post #582
cm2187 wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am struggling to reconcile this story with the numbers of deaths so far vs the number of deaths in any given year. A french infectious disease specialist mentioned that 2017 had been a bad year for infectious respiratory diseases in France, with over 60,000 additional deaths in winter, to the point that it affected life expectancy tables [1]. I don’t remember any mention of hospitals being overwhelmed and doing war…

Flu season is accounted for in normal hospital beds and other capacity planning. A sudden huge surge in need for ICU care is not accounted for.

But my point is that surely these additional 60,000 people (and probably many more who recovered) must have gone through ICU.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#622

Post by makomk »

xienze wrote: post #338
burkaman wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember much opposition to that order and I can't find any now.

You must not have been paying much attention then. > The Trump administration’s quarantine and travel ban in response to the Wuhan coronavirus could undercut international efforts to fight the outbreak by antagonizing Chinese leaders, as well as stigmatizing people of Asian descent, according to a growing chorus of public health experts and lawmakers.[0] > The Trump administration’s decision to severely restrict trav…

Yes, and this is a huge problem. Countries like Singapore which have managed to control the coronavirus have done so using travel restrictions much stricter than the US ones. The Washington Post found a solution to this though. They ran an op-ed "Coronavirus testing might have stopped it early. Now it's too late." pointing to Singapore's success as proof the coronavirus could've been contained, but completely omitting any mention of its use of border controls and pinning it entirely on aggressive testing. This went viral on social media, turning Singapore's success into a confirmation of people's existing belief seeded by the media that Trump's obsession with travel restrictions had screwed up the US coronavirus response.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#623

Post by grey-area »

hnaccy wrote: post #272
moultano wrote: post #271

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

Does that mean they're just triaging them and letting them die?

That's what you need to do when the country is unprepared, and the health service is overwhelmed.

Similar situations will play out in the US unless strict protocols are enforced now.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#624

Post by pjc50 »

ALittleLight wrote: post #419
muyuan wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Chinese living in Bay Area. What's described by the Italian doctor was exactly like the situation in Wuhan right after the lockdown for the first 2-3 weeks. Unfortunately, I think it will hit Italy harder this time, China locked down Wuhan but every other provinces send in supplies and doctors to help, just building new hospitals is not enough, and I don't see France/Germany doing the same to Italy. The US res…

I am extremely disappointed in the American government on this. We have had a significant warning and we've seen the virus in multiple countries and the response has been so lackluster. Why should we wait 20 days for things to get terrible before going to quarantines and lock down? Surely China and Italy have shown us our future. I partly think the problem is political. If you quarantine and the virus is controlled,…

> What I mostly wish is that citizens could throw some sort of flag now to say "This crisis is being poorly handled. If this goes badly, let's have a review, figure out why, and correct the problem once this is settled."

The election season is in full swing and you should have the opportunity to vote on how well you think the crisis has been handled by November.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#625

Post by rorykoehler »

hef19898 wrote: post #616
rorykoehler wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am in Germany. Everyone is acting like nothing is happening. It's infuriating.

Well, in Bavaria at least, people are forced to self-quarantine for two weeks if they had contact to people from o where in high risk areas. Same goes for children in schools and kindergardens. Some schools are closed already. Corporate travel came more or less to a halt and soccer games are most likely taking place without spectators. So yes, just business as usual.

I'm in Berlin and people are making zero effort to alter their usual patterns.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#626

Post by majewsky »

voqv wrote: post #592
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark yesterday a couple of kids in the same class in a school were tested positive, they closed the classroom - not even the school. I would certainly like to see the example of a country able to learn from the mistakes of others.

In Germany a friend of mine refused to go to a meeting at a client's office where someone tested positive and HR threatened him because he was violating his employment contract.

Counter-datapoint: My employer (SAP) has had one case of COVID-19 among their German workforce. The entire office building has been closed down for disinfection and the employees there are asked to work from home for the quarantine period. All other employees (worldwide afaik) can work from home without informing their manager beforehand (as is the usual policy). All non-essential business travel is prohibited, with exceptions requiring high-tier management approval. Only two examples for exceptions were given: travelling to a data center to access physical hardware, and travelling to a customer site to access intranet services.

EDIT: I realize that this response is easier to do for SAP than for the average company since we are all working in front of computers anyway the entire time, with only 1-2% of tasks tied to physical objects (paper forms, server hardware etc.).

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#627

Post by wooger »

markvdb wrote: post #481
hurrdurr2 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of our older neighbors are inviting everyone on the nextdoor app to go to their house for movie night to prove that this is just a flu. The entire thread is people making fun of covid19 and how they are angry their retirement accounts are getting hit. I wish I was making this up.

Darwin will solve this irresponsibly stupid behavior. Causing a lot of collateral damage unfortunately.

No, old people have likely already re-produced, and will not be prevented from reproducing if they die now.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#628

Post by Scarblac »

hef19898 wrote: post #588
Scarblac wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quarantine a whole neighbourhood when a case is found, keep it locked down until everyone has tested negative for two weeks. Drive-through testing where everybody with any symptoms can get themselves tested. A good public education campaign with calm TV documentaries that show the facts of what was going on in Wuhan and is now going on in Italy, and explains why these actions need to be taken.

So basically a measured, fact based response to it. Sounds good if you ask me! Especially the education campaign is thoroughly missed at the moment.

I'm hoping TV crews get into Lombardy hospitals and show the West what is happening there, it might get people to take this seriously. But then someone needs to also give them clear instructions or it will just be panic.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#629

Post by ithkuil »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #560
Jedd wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur with GP - but here in Australia we're run by fantasists, so it's not going to happen here either. > Now long would you maintain that quarantine? I'd suggest start with 2 weeks, and reassess after 10 days. I note that in TFA Italy's administration extended this (initially) out to the 3rd of April, which seems like a reasonable timeframe. Incarcerated people rioted ... and a churlish part of my brain suggests…

most people outside of the previous red zone is uncaring about the new emergency restrictions step 1 should have been to bring military in the streets to enforce the thing, because police is both decimated by the virus and overwhelmed from the new responsibilities and cannot handle what's happening

perhaps there is no need to go to extremes.

Where I live I already have to provide my babysitter a signed letter where I certify that she comes to work here. She's from a different township (comune) and the police could fine her if caught without that document.

It's not going to stop 100% of people from moving around, but even it this reduces the spread by a few % it's already a big improvement; even reducing the daily rate from 21% to 20% can have a 20x effect on total cases over a year.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#630

Post by koalala »

winrid wrote: post #558
jiggawatts wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fixed the formatting, typos, and expanded the jargon: From a well respected friend and intensivist/A&E consultant who is currently in northern Italy: I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do. First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked i…

Thanks. What does tubed mean here?

Intubated, so put on a ventilator, apparently.
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