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Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#51

Post by garmaine »

keiferski wrote: post #44
muzani wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's... a different question. Where would you find fossils on other planets? The article says Titan has seas of hydrocarbon, but otherwise Moon and Mars, it's just not an option. One reason why Musk has invested so much in non-fossil fuel tech is not so much to save this planet but to operate things on other planets.

Sure, but my broad question was essentially: are there any negatives to using "dirty" forms of energy like nuclear, coal, or oil in space?

> are there any negatives to using "dirty" forms of energy like nuclear, coal, or oil

One of those is not like the others.

Nuclear is the cleanest form of energy we have, cleaner than even wind or solar power.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#52

Post by keiferski »

garmaine wrote: post #51
keiferski wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but my broad question was essentially: are there any negatives to using "dirty" forms of energy like nuclear, coal, or oil in space?

> are there any negatives to using "dirty" forms of energy like nuclear, coal, or oil One of those is not like the others. Nuclear is the cleanest form of energy we have, cleaner than even wind or solar power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#53

Post by davedx »

Not a single comment calling out this article's complete lack of scientific references, including the "iron smashing our brains at relativistic velocities" quote?

I think it's great to consider other planets we can colonize, and indeed a thick atmosphere has a lot of benefits, but it's hardly rational to state Mars has "a deal-breaking problem" without providing any hard evidence to back up this claim.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#54

Post by giantrobot »

sulam wrote: post #36
keiferski wrote: post #31

Two thoughts on this topic: 1. The film Gattaca (1997), in addition to being an excellent, inspiring film all around, centers on an aspiring astronaut's upcoming trip to Titan. Highly recommended. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZa83dTf4JA 2. The colonization of Venus is also a fascinating idea that isn't talked about much in comparison to the Moon or Mars. Essentially, the surface is too hot for colonization, but…

"Strap in folks, we're going through some turbulence... For the rest of your lives."

Like a life-long Maxell commercial but with acid rain.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#55

Post by garmaine »

keiferski wrote: post #52
garmaine wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are there any negatives to using "dirty" forms of energy like nuclear, coal, or oil One of those is not like the others. Nuclear is the cleanest form of energy we have, cleaner than even wind or solar power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste

If I were snarky I’d reply with the wiki link to industrial waste. Here’s an article with details:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23...

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#56

Post by keiferski »

garmaine wrote: post #55
keiferski wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste

If I were snarky I’d reply with the wiki link to industrial waste. Here’s an article with details: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23...

You are already being snarky and this conversation is not very useful. I was simply asking if there are any downsides to using energy sources (that give off dangerous waste products) in space.

I didn't mention anything about solar being dirtier than nuclear, nor did I ask for some kind of debate on the topic.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#57

Post by mustntmumble »

davedx wrote: post #53

Not a single comment calling out this article's complete lack of scientific references, including the "iron smashing our brains at relativistic velocities" quote? I think it's great to consider other planets we can colonize, and indeed a thick atmosphere has a lot of benefits, but it's hardly rational to state Mars has "a deal-breaking problem" without providing any hard evidence to back up this claim.

Scientific American is a magazine for the general public that have a high school level education in science. It is not a peer reviewed scientific journal, thus the SA articles do not have the same level of footnotes and references that a scholarly journal might. Having said that, I think on balance, the quality of journalism in SA is excellent, thanks in part to highly skilled and qualified editors.

Anyway, this article by the "discoverer of the Solar Wind" (maybe validator is a better word), Eugene Parker, is relevant to this discussion: https://www.dartmouth.edu/~sshepherd/research/Shielding/docs...

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#58

Post by dntbnmpls »

keiferski wrote: post #31

Two thoughts on this topic: 1. The film Gattaca (1997), in addition to being an excellent, inspiring film all around, centers on an aspiring astronaut's upcoming trip to Titan. Highly recommended. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZa83dTf4JA 2. The colonization of Venus is also a fascinating idea that isn't talked about much in comparison to the Moon or Mars. Essentially, the surface is too hot for colonization, but…

> 1. The film Gattaca (1999), in addition to being an excellent, inspiring film all around, centers on an aspiring astronaut's upcoming trip to Titan. Highly recommended.

Gattaca is one of my favorite films. I agree that it is excellent, but I'm not sure it is inspiring. Gattaca is about how the system, society, circumstances and expectations beyond your control are an albatross around everyone's neck and ultimately harm and defeat the individual. In Gattaca, both Vincent and Jerome are tragic figures as they are both victims of expectations. Jerome is burdened by high expectations and Vincent by low expectations and those societal expectations are a hurdle to the lives they want to lead. Ultimately those societal expectations crushes Jerome and turns him into a cynical cripple. Vincent's societal expectations places a chip on his shoulder which costs him his family and his identity. And in the end, neither Jerome nor Vincent achieve their dreams as Jerome burns himself to death and Vincent dies on his way to Titan due to his "degenerate" heart. In a way, Gattaca is about two people on their own suicide mission as they rage against society/expectations. If you watch the movie from the beginning, you'll realize that both fully know that they are going to die/kill themselves doing what they are doing. It's a tragedy.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#59

Post by Juliate »

muzani wrote: post #33

> It’s cold on Titan, at -180°C (-291°F), but thanks to its thick atmosphere, residents wouldn’t need pressure suits—just warm clothing and respirators. I'm no space colony expert but am I missing something here? -180°C sounds like constant space suit level, not "just warm clothing".

At least, the suit would not need to be pressurized and extremely resistant to punctures.

At most, warm & insulated enough.

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